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BiblePay discussion / Re: Economical model thoughts and current state

« Last post by sunk818 on February 12, 2019, 11:18:57 am »

> Nothing related to charity and donations create demands.

I joined BiblePay because of the charity and donation model. Then I saw the PoDC and thought using CPU for science tasks instead of wasteful hashing was a good selling point. If you're charity minded and/or environmentally minded, BiblePay has attractive features. I bought and staked for PoDC. I'm sure there's a lot of people in the same situation.

BiblePay discussion / Re: Economical model thoughts and current state

« Last post by jmmc on February 12, 2019, 08:11:40 am »

I can see your points. I quite agree with both reply posts.

Major point here I want to emphasize is that the current economical model doesn't work. We can skip the rest for now as minor issues. But this one is the major one:

Lot of supply and no demand

Outflow is here (outflow is always easy - sell, donate, etc.) but without demand based on serious utility / advantage any crypto project cycle is needed, otherwise it's a well without spring that gets dry in short time. Crypto bull market can bring some water into to well but that should not be the major resource.

Nothing related to mining / staking creates demand. Nothing related to charity and donations create demands. All of that creates supply and value outflow only. This is actually problem of 99.9% of crypto projects (even those big ones). Shop acceptance actually doesn't help here much because again it doesn't create new demand. Demand can be only created by so me advantageous utility or by saving factor (like discount when you pay with crypto etc.).

BBP community should pray that this projects comes with some real world use case ideas that makes BBP worth investing and accumulating. Right now I can see none. Otherwise it is just about donating few extra bitcoins to orphans via over-complex masternode-based crypto network. It doesn't make sense and there is no value over using good old credit card.

Active Discussions / Re: Testnet - Test Proof of Giving

« Last post by Ichthus220 on February 11, 2019, 07:37:06 pm »

Hey gang,

quick question:

I have 3 laptops running boinc that feed rewards to 1 wallet that is associated with boinc. I each laptop also has a biblepay wallet. Can I only do POG from the wallet associated with my boinc account?

Thank you,

Pre-Proposal Discussion / Re: PoDC stake: lock transaction within wallet and can not be transferred

« Last post by 616westwarmoth on February 11, 2019, 06:17:46 pm »

Here are my proposed improvements to PoDC:

Modify the staking percentages for rewards :- eliminate the formula for staking percentage and go to a 20 BBP supports 1 RAC system

By eliminating the percentages, you simplify the explanation. For every 20 BBP you stake, you support 1 BBP RAC.

Examples:

My BBP RAC is 1000, and I stake 2000 BBP, I have 100 staked RAC (2000/20).
My BBP RAC is 100 and I stake 2000 BBP, also have 100 staked RAC (2000/20), same as above
My BBP RAC is 1000 and I stake 20,000 BBP, I have 1000 staked RAC (20,000/20) and get 10x the rewards as the previous examples
My BBP RAC is 1000 and I stake 100 BBP, I have 5 staked RAC (100/20). I still get a reward which lowers the barrier to entry

Treat PoDCUpdate Stakes like Sanctuary Stakes : Lock the transaction and require it to still be locked when the daily payout occurs

When PoDCUpdate runs, it checks the users current RAC from the most recent reports.
If there is no existing Locked PoDC Stake, PoDC will create a stake at 110% (or whatever the user has if less than) and lock it.
If there IS an existing Locked PoDC Stake, PoDC will check to ensure it is sufficient (but not excessive) for maximum rewards (roughly 95%-115% stake under the current system, 105%-115% under the 20:1 revision above), create a new Locked stake if it exists outside of those parameters.
At PoDC Payout, the MN network would compare the locked stake amounts to the user RAC and only pay if the stake was still in a locked status. This would eliminate the unfair stake shuffling that some users had used to circumvent the staking system.

Remove the requirement the PoDC Users mine: The requirement is not generally in force and adds complexity without a commensurate benefit to security

Currently when PoDC is DR0 or DR1, you're supposed to be mining to participate in PoDC. While there are good arguments for this, it's not been enforced and the primary benefit to me is network hash rate (adds protection from 51% attacks). However, we have protection in that regard from the no more than 1 in 10 blocks can be mined by a single wallet and think the loss of this would simplify things at a minimal risk.

I would be interested to see the converse be true however...that participating in PoDC at some level (say 1000 RAC) would grant an exclusive mining window of 5 minutes or so but I'm not entirely sure of the potential for abuse there.

Modify Team Requirement: 20 BBP/RAC for Team Members, 25 or 30 BBP/RAC for non-Team Members

This gives a bonus to those who are on our team, but allows for people that are attached to their "home" team to still participate. While I feel non-Team members are more likely to be mining solely for profit, it would be a good balance between expansion of users and protection of the user base. Additionally, Team Membership has marketing value long term and increasing our stats there will allow for us to place better in Challenges for increased PR as well as improve our overall ranking which can be used in a similar fashion. The number of potential users that participate in BOINC, specifically World Community Grid, is huge and are likely in the top end of easiest to recruit.

Reduce the World Community Grid multiplier: reduce the multiplier to 1.25 from 1.5 RAC

The 1.5 multiplier is too lucrative, and makes Rosetta@home significantly less productive. Shifting the multiplier would balance our work more so.

I am a proponent of PoDC. I think the system could be solid with some changes and aligns with the mission of the coin to help people. The complexity of PoDC will always be moderately high in part due to the fact that there are not many PoDC-style coins and overall crypto universe is unfamiliar with it. But the system has the potential to be stable long term while locking up funds and reducing market turnover. Removing or significantly reducing it is in my eyes a disservice to our community.

BiblePay discussion / Re: Economical model thoughts and current state

« Last post by 616westwarmoth on February 11, 2019, 04:51:31 pm »

Quote from: jmmc on February 09, 2019, 04:39:24 am

I'm BBP supporter since almost the start of the project but I would not "invest" in BBP without being Christian and considering charity factor.
At the beginning I just took it like "fancy" way howto support orphans, preach gospel via cryptocurrency project. So here we are.
I was buying most around ATH not much thinking about the project from investment PoV.
However I hoped that much more Christians world would grasp this idea.
I invested into this project something about 3 BTC when BTC was much more valuable and tried to help the project from time to time.

Now BBP is dry. Hovering around price 4-6 sat. Funds of the initial investors (like me) are spent. It was pretty obvious during BBP spike yesterday. BBP up, BBP down to 4 sat.
I understand faith and things like that but how about finally admit that BBP was not based on sustainable principles but rather on denying them. I will list few issues:

1. Proof of (whatever) - why there is so much effort around this, I can see no value added by constant changing consensus/reward algorithm but quite the opposite (confusion, new bugs, etc.). To me simple PoS would be the best. Mining times are over, maybe Bitcoin can keep it but I'm skeptical. BOINC is centralized and all other approaches seems awkward to me.
2. 10% - understanding support mission to orphans, but frankly this is not tithe because tithe is from profit. If you want to have model based on 10% from profit then build oracle, recalculate BBP to USD and if there is evaluation, then automatically cash 10% of that profit. Now it's more like pillaging the initial funds before we reach zero level. As this is not sustainable orphans will probably (unless God makes some miracle) not be helped in the future and investors will avoid this project.
3. Inflation/Deflation - BBP emission is higher than pace of adoption which necessarily leads to price crash. Again it would be nice to have self-adjusting emission model so that emission would adjust according to market price trend - probably connected to USD or at least BTC.
4. Misusing funds - in the past I've seen cases where thousands of dollars were approved for various non BBP or orphans-related activities (surprisingly to some slovak and other people) without giving BBP or Jesus / Christianity any publicity.
5. Income side - BBP has no demand increasing utility

Simply summarized: I would rather like to see BBP as simplified PoS project supporting orphans from USD market value increase (we pay orphans with USD, don't we?) and with strong demand increasing utility. Without that, I'm unable to see any long-term vision for BBP. Wake up! Now BBP is heading to it's crash. I believe Rob is a good guy but BBP really need some serious changes. God bless!

PoS brings some unique problems that most PoS coins will quietly admit. The biggest is how forks are resolved. With Proof of Work, you have an objective measure to determine longest chain, with Proof of Stake there are some questions about how to break ties and the like. These sort of issues will be more pronounced on a smaller coin and we'll have fewer resources to tackle them.

BBP faces the same issue that 99% of coins face, questionable utility. Since our price varies substantially (we're susceptible to both value changes relative to Bitcoin, i.e., our price in Satoshi, as well as the value of Bitcoin itself). We can easily see a 10% variation in price in the span of a day or less, so utilizing BBP for fiat transfers is a hard sell. The Research (PoDC) angle doesn't really add value or utility, but is in my eyes a potentially valuable marketing tool. The support of Orphans isn't a use case for end users but again is a potentially valuable marketing aspect. Increasing utility is a VERY hard task, IPFS was one potential but with our limited user base not one we could likely leverage (Siacoin is one player in the file storage arena and even they aren't doing very well despite their name recognition). Integration with Walmart or Subway isn't a solid use case as we're not stable enough price wise to make that practical at this time. There was a proposal for a deflationary emission schedule but the issue there becomes in a free-falling market, you're only limiting new supply which potentially makes it harder for new users and only really provides price stability on the short term (as at some point it's got to cap out too).

Hopefully this spring will bring an improvement to the crypto markets at large and since we're still surviving where other MN coins are not, it could provide us some advantages just by having longevity. The short term though, to me, should strive for stability, no more big new systems in main net, no huge development projects when we're unable to pay for them. Just make what we have work, work better, incremental gains and wait for the overall market to improve and bring us up with that. To me, the most significant impact on price has been the combination of unstability/uncertainty: the latest change has required re installs and we're still not sure what will happen to PoDC since if it's a Masternode vote, it's believed that Rob controls (not necessarily owns but has the de facto proxy) for the majority of the typically voting Masternodes; and the other factor affecting price is the lack of buyers as it's my belief a few well heeled buyers have likely previously kept the price afloat which empirical evidence would suggest is no longer the case.

BiblePay discussion / Re: Economical model thoughts and current state

« Last post by sunk818 on February 11, 2019, 11:57:48 am »

Interesting thoughts. Your point 1 about BOINC and point 3 are in conflict. BOINC is centralized. If you control emission based on market price trends that is an outside force on the blockchain (centralized) like BOINC. Price can only be determined by whatever the exchange dictates. I prefer emission to stay on course and whatever the exchange dictates as price is whatever it is. It should not interfere with blockchain emission schedule.

Theology Corner / Acts 22 Bible Study Questions

« Last post by sunk818 on February 10, 2019, 01:04:40 am »

Acts 23 Bible Study Questions Acts 23:6-10 What are some ways that Christianity is different from all other religions? How does the resurrection give hope even when facing dire circumstances? Acts 23:15 Talk about a time when you have been treated wrongly. How have you responded? What kind of response pleases God? How does knowing God is in control enable us to respond rightly? Acts 23:11 What are some of the promises that God gives to us that will encourage us in difficult times? Look these up and read them together. Which is most encouraging to you personally? Acts 23:12-22 Talk about the difference between providence (protective care of God) and miracles. Which is God’s normal way of accomplishing His will? How does that give us confidence in difficulties? Acts 23:23-35 Discuss the goodness of God. What does it mean to say that God is good? What are the evidences of His goodness? Can you see His goodness even in bad times? Application: Pray for strength to trust God in situations when you are wronged so that your witness might give glory to God Pray for someone who needs to know Jesus as Savior Thank the Lord for the peace and comfort that He has given to you. Pray that you can rest in His control in the difficulties you face this week. Pray that you might see and give thanks to God for His goodness and mercy that are everlasting. Source: http://www.cabotbible.com/PDFs/ActsPDFs/Acts%2023.01%20God%20Is%20In%20Control.pdf

Theology Corner / Acts 23 Bible Study Questions

« Last post by sunk818 on February 10, 2019, 01:03:46 am »

Active Discussions / Re: Testnet - Test Proof of Giving

« Last post by way2 on February 09, 2019, 11:45:12 pm »

Quote from: sunk818 on February 09, 2019, 06:24:37 pm

This is a can of worms. Talk to your accountant and hope so/he understands crypto.

Donating BBP if you're going to file would be value at the date of transaction not value on a different date. You might use CMC historical rates and figure out your donations.

But since you're donating BBP and possibly earning bbp as well... And since it is bbp to bbp is it really a taxable trade?

And then you're not the one selling to BTC and then to fiat... So who gets the deduction?

Filing taxes for crypto is already complicated but trying to declare for orphan foundation is likely something no accountant understands.

Thanks for your reply. Taxes isn't a strong point for me, but I think your questions should be relatively straight forward. The fact that it is crypto shouldn't be much of an issue. The contribution value should be fair market value when the transaction occurred. However, since we are donating aged coins, the taxable basis would be the cost when they were purchased. The basis should be the value at donation minus cost at purchase. How it is treated will be whether it is considered long or short term (whether it is held for more or less than one year)

It should be a deductible trade (quid pro quo) because of how everything is labeled (proof of giving, tithe). Many people will be over $75 annually (https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/substantiating-charitable-contributions) so there is a required written disclosure statement from BBP foundation as a pass through. Each individual should get the deduction.

The model where 10% off the top goes to Compassion should not be deductible by individuals but would be by Biblepay. This is my expectation, but again, taxes is not a strong point for me.

Active Discussions / Re: Testnet - Test Proof of Giving

« Last post by sunk818 on February 09, 2019, 06:24:37 pm »

This is a can of worms. Talk to your accountant and hope so/he understands crypto.

Donating BBP if you're going to file would be value at the date of transaction not value on a different date. You might use CMC historical rates and figure out your donations.

But since you're donating BBP and possibly earning bbp as well... And since it is bbp to bbp is it really a taxable trade?

And then you're not the one selling to BTC and then to fiat... So who gets the deduction?

Filing taxes for crypto is already complicated but trying to declare for orphan foundation is likely something no accountant understands.

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