Testnet - Test Proof of Giving

[mint]

Found this

21:11:43

exec istithelegal 379ed6f1c962ab76570dd6ff609ec36f38e5578563e9d950ce4e37f4efd61840


21:11:48

{
  "Command": "istithelegal",
  "Tithe_Legal": false,
  "Tithe_Age": 5.161655092592593,
  "Tithe_Spent_Coin_Amount": 1554,
  "Tithe_Amount": 108,
  "Block_diff_min_coin_age": 9.25,
  "Block_diff_min_coin_amt": 3853,
  "Block_diff_max_tithe_amt": 253,
  "Tithed_Height": 95741
}

This is 1170 so it might be already corrected

[Rob Andrews]

Found this

21:11:43

exec istithelegal 379ed6f1c962ab76570dd6ff609ec36f38e5578563e9d950ce4e37f4efd61840


21:11:48

{
  "Command": "istithelegal",
  "Tithe_Legal": false,
  "Tithe_Age": 5.161655092592593,
  "Tithe_Spent_Coin_Amount": 1554,
  "Tithe_Amount": 108,
  "Block_diff_min_coin_age": 9.25,
  "Block_diff_min_coin_amt": 3853,
  "Block_diff_max_tithe_amt": 253,
  "Tithed_Height": 95741
}

This is 1170 so it might be already corrected

Hmm, sort of maybe OK maybe not, we need to double check this.

1170 was the version that supposedly fixed the user from accidentally creating the illegal tithe.  However I was monitoring 1170s logs and didnt see anyone make an illegal tithe in a block created 1170+.  (Up to 6 hours ago though).

We need to know how this occurred (IE did you create the transaction in 1170+) and also do you know if reproduceible?

[Rob Andrews]

1. First of all... no "exec" commands. Commands are not for newbies and normal people. Exec pogpool is nice command but for normal people it must be inside GUI wallet (normal people don't use headless wallet). It will be nice to have one part of menu with POG (like "Distibuted computing" for PODC now). I still don't know if POG replace PODC at all or not. If yes, you could use this GUI wallet part and it will be easier for you to modify it. My idea is to divide pogpool command to two parts. First one would be list of users in pool and second part would be tier list with user stats. Now it's no problem to have it together but imagine output of this command when there will be 100 and more users It must be comprehensible for newbies and trust me "exec" command is not so clear. Normal users wants all visible with one click on button.

Regarding newbies, first of all the exec pogpool wont be showing the heading info - that is for debug purposes.  In prod we only show the tranches.  Next Snat is creating a UI for a web based site for users who dont know how to go the rpc.  (Im considering doing a UI pogpool view also in the core).  But, thanks for reminding me that we should maybe make the summary a little nicer, that could be a good thing for me to work on for the next version before prod.  Regarding 'exec' itself, that will be eliminated eventually, but maybe not in the next mandatory or two.

Thanks for the advice though, well taken.

[Rob Andrews]

2. Automatic tithing. That was really pain in my neck I had old wallet with old config and it was not working for me. I've tried all what I've found in testnet topic, but I wasn't successful. At the end I was able to auto tithe but...
2a. Again for normal (translate it like me users it must be somewhere in config options just to check "want to participate in POG mining", second option would be frequency and third would be max amount - maybe not everyone wants to participate with max_tithe. Maybe it may be like step by step guide on first wallet run and then just part of config and in that wallet part in my point 1 it may be button for this config.
2b. My biggest problem with auto tihing was that my wallet is locked. It looks that you must have unlocked wallet for auto tithing. My presumption was that PODC startup unlock window unlock it for POG too. Maybe you can use it for POG unlock too.  And modify "-headlesspodcpassword exec podcpasswordlength" in headless too.
2c. How it's with auto tithing when there are no suitable coins at tithe time? It will wait for next tithe time (default 4 hours) or it will try in few minutes again? I'm not sure what will be better, but those "force" trying sounds better for me.

Regarding auto background tithing, we just put in the one click mining setup in the menu for newbies.  If they dont use that, all the user needs to do is enter 'tithe=minutes_frequency' in the next version.  But I get your point on the walletunlock!  Great catch - we need that asap.

Ill work on putting that feature in during the next release, I think we can make the tithing subsystem that auto-tithes respect the password that was entered during boot, and if wallet is locked, use it, unlock, tithe, and re-lock.


When there are no suitable coins, it just silently skips the tithing-and of course tries again in 4 hours.  If your frequency is set lower, it tries again at that frequency point.

[Rob Andrews]

From Orbis:
6a. How to get to exact payment tier (how many coins i need to tithe)? - because in some tiers can be more or less users.
6b. It is any advantage to get to other tier?


So your tier is determined from what block you tithed last in.  The block you tithed in determines your current tier.  If you end up in a tier with more givers it is disadvantageous for you.  IE if a whale tithes 10,000 bbp and ends in tier 2 and you end in tier 2 you just ended up sharing the pool weight with a whale.  What you can do then is just tithe again and it should change your tier.

It is advantageous to be in the lowest (sum of tithes) tier.  Of course in prod I expect this to be pretty distributed out due to arb, and randomness.



ROI:

To figure ROI, first figure what your income will be.  If your tier yields a 50% tithe_weight for you, that means you will be paid on 13 blocks at (80 % of the heat mining reward * .50), so expect about 400~ bbp for each pool payout * .50% = 200 bbp per block * 13 blocks = 2600 bbp revenue in this case.  However if you were in a tier where you ended up with 10% tithe_weight that would be a total of ~500 bbp revenue.

[Rob Andrews]

6d. At the beginning there will be only old users, so many coins with high coin_age. I have tried to make as many manual tithes as I was able within one block. I've made 8 tx within one block and the coin_age didn't change. After new block appears I wasn't able to tithe because my coin_age didn't meet the criteria. It was experiment, because I knew that I'm on the edge of criteria. So, is it possible that someone will abuse this? Will it be problem for others? Because at the beginning I have 0 BBP in tithes and after that around 2000 BBP. That is more like with basic autotithe. And in prod are block longer, so you have more time to make more tx
6e. When there is max tithe (eg 250 BBP) and someone use basic autotithe (4 hours) you can tithe approx 1500 BBP (6 x 250). So if they create more wallets and divide it with "exec bankroll" with e.g. 22500 BBP (max min_coin_amount will he be in advantage or not?

Regarding abusing 6d, its not really an edge.  First of all, if you met the criteria of "legal tithe" you had the right to do it (IE because your coins were aged).  Next, diff will jump on the next block.  Next, even if someone does it once, this will only work once (and then they lose coin age again) and will persist for 205 more blocks until that high block rolls out of the pool.  Next, we are raising tx fee relay fees in the next version, which will discourage a lot of transactions per block.

There is no advantage at all to create multiple wallets.  There is an advantage to using exec bankroll however, but only as far as making it fair for everyone who has 'excess balances' - IE we wouldnt want to hide anyones excess ability to tithe, so we have the bankroll feature.

[Rob Andrews]

From Orbis:

7. Next remarks, not questions In my nest test there was maxTithe 255 BBP and I tried to send 300.. in GUI it was OK (TX creation failed with popup "your tithe exceeds...") but in console with "exec tithe 300" it was successful (TXID: 899762855682e7dc3294c461608895451ca93fd6749ed2a8d69383a1734681f2) but it was not counted in "My tithes". I think it should be canceled like in GUI with error message.

Great catch, I believe this applies to both Orbis and Mint!  You found a bug.  Your right, the UI respects the max tithe and the RPC doesnt.. that explains how the illegal tithe got in for Mint on 1170....

Ok fixing now... Will need to re-release 1172 so we can re-test this.

[Rob Andrews]

Orbis:
That chat is really fun part (but for now it is empty ) I know that it is just "alpha release" but chat window is still on top over main wallet window, without option to minimize (it will minimize with main window), so you cannot leave it open on background if you want and maybe that is the point why it is still empty.

On my debian box, there is minimize on the chat windows.  On a side note, when someone PM someone else, the wallet opens the chat for you.  But I think you are referring to being able to place the chat window behind the mother window - looking at other non-modal windows in our app, you cant place the debug window behind the mother window, so thats normal, you have to minimize it.

But we can definitely try to see why your distro doesnt show minimize.  Are you sure you cant right click the chat window upper left corner and minimize the chat window?

[orbis]

Rob thanks for all of your answers It's more clear for me now
And to that chat window... I'm using WIN 10 home 64 bit.
Screenshot attached.

[orbis]

Thanks Snat.
I've tried to put something useful there
I don't really know what extra info would be useful.
When all our exec commands will be accessible (on click) within web site or in wallet it would be awesome (and neccessary for most people).
Some extra highlight of user stats would be nice too, because if there will be tons of users it will be hard to find own statistic.
I'll wait for you "product" and after that I'll try to get you some constructive feedback

[Rob Andrews]

Thanks Snat.
I've tried to put something useful there
I don't really know what extra info would be useful.
When all our exec commands will be accessible (on click) within web site or in wallet it would be awesome (and neccessary for most people).
Some extra highlight of user stats would be nice too, because if there will be tons of users it will be hard to find own statistic.
I'll wait for you "product" and after that I'll try to get you some constructive feedback

Just to clarify though, the plan is not to make every exec command available to the user or necessary.

The exec commands were used to build a lot of functionality that was created over the years and each command is not necessarily staying in the codebase.

So let us not make an effort to make exec commands more accessible as I will be taking care of reducing and cleaning that up as we know what stays.  I am removing exec from pogpool and showblock today.  I have to look at every left over rpc command once we know whats happening with podc, etc.

Yes - we need to make POG accessible for the newbie; currently we have the ability to auto tithe with the one click setup or the config changes, we have the ability to tithe from the UI.  The only command they miss is access to the pogpool, which TheSnat is adding to a web page.

[Rob Andrews]

I can confirm, windows does not have this option.

Reproduced in windows 7 also.

Ok, I put in the fix that supposedly fixes it, lets see if its fixed on 1172b.  Building.

[Rob Andrews]

1.1.7.2b
Mandatory Upgrade for TestNet


- Fixed ability to send illegal tithe from rpc
- Moved exec pogpool command to "pogpool"
- Added minimize and maximize to Chat window in OS windows
- Respect auto-unlock password if user used it - to send tithes automatically
- (Remove training wheels)
- (Show user left chat toom)

[Rob Andrews]

Cool

I think there should be a "user entered chat room" as well, it only seems to notice once someone has sent a message

Yes,  that could be cool, if your chat window is open, you will have a chance to see the non-speakers.  OK will add.

[Rob Andrews]

If your node was past 95824 (mandatory cutover height) before the upgrade, please erase and resync.