Bible Pay

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  • Rob Andrews
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    • June 05, 2017, 08:09:04 pm
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Update on the PODC project:

I have not found any new bugs.  The CPID signature rule seems to be working correctly.
The chain is syncing from zero correctly.  The quorum votes are behaving correctly.
The headless version is filtering the files correctly.
Any concerns or feature requests?

Last night I added an in-wallet leaderboard (exec leaderboard).  It shows CPID, Magnitude by magnitude descending.
Im holding off to check it in until we team it up with another change.

So far, this looks very promising for Prod on March 15th....

EDIT: I also added two reports to the pool:  Once per day, we gather the data.  Rosetta Machine Leaderboard and Rosetta Project Leaderboard.
Its gleaning the data from the Biblepay team, so if you arent in the team the leaderboard misses you. 

(We still allow Rosetta crunchers outside of the team, to receive compensation and this is for future PR.  Im envisioning that we make a post in the
 Rosetta forums eventually and invite those users over.  Or pay for a banner ad out of our PR budget on the boincstats site.  (There are some veteran Rosetta crunchers with billions of credits who belong to a certain team - so they may not want to drop their team - but if they are not required to, they may join us and become part of our community - and be part of our community in other ways).

« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 08:44:56 am by Rob A. »


  • Rob Andrews
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08:52:59

exec leaderboard


08:52:59

{
  "Leaderboard Report": 1518792787,
  "Height": 11484,
  "Total Block": 1365199,
  "93138f032bdd027fa3246b48bb715a77": 167.4210121204234,
  "4004b7fec94751f61fe9135977bac553": 150.9508859078355,
  "c9085154b7cc0ca2b5189672559dd6d8": 98.73066052106205,
  "8735cfe64d964416dba6015eb414cf7e": 94.17015325846157,
  "7c9264559fef3c1c689ee9fc3ff42494": 66.62984614968333,
  "8f273b30f8e0a298ed26e242762df701": 51.81002878107859,
  "e7ae6abd6284b05f3fd5f7c780e60bc7": 45.15019389004685,
  "d9b22fccfae5582d4ee7838883aaa3cf": 42.22021813508347,
  "6cf45c3b54ef7c08d15838446a98ef24": 41.56024109627797,
  "1e7184e17377549d5a7d7a2edfb51017": 39.35982930430048,
  "dde30f3ef57ed2df69ecbc687db75e46": 34.20966442101361,
  "6785ded1f65063ef8f01f42deb31cf1d": 27.37989093619398,
  "ca895b47aacffbdbf906201821af2f9f": 24.15984758148924,
  "4fd1bf6c6900d92b226e16c6a6935661": 20.03004675486836,
  "04fba56d89a5eb38b1b82f8a6240132c": 19.77001140661536,
  "e94c1704c75f731f8bfde303f08408ee": 17.16965792408537,
  "96892ec0fc8a2710fa84f26c9c84cd3e": 11.90961894998737,
  "71f1f1f46deb2f25961c7d9af06f2b31": 9.689429821663875,
  "e7c056024cd3b781edd5af37965c652c": 8.910056270843619,
  "95a79cd5829e8315b0b946709930df18": 8.759895013401746,
  "f80ab050ab53459ec937879a046d603e": 6.219606033848502,
  "84d803e4d82d3bdcdf8e2ab601e93e20": 5.769854755461624,
  "cc37d0ef74a621379974484f43d3b1c5": 5.079845465167748,
  "fe553a955f0e21d46724858870014cbe": 2.939498176167004
}


This report shows the descending magnitude from the last superblock, and the CPIDs.  You can see our magnitudes always add up to 1000.



  • klondike
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why missing nicks in leaderboard?  ::)  thanks

me, orbis etc


  • jaapgvk
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why missing nicks in leaderboard?  ::)  thanks

me, orbis etc

Do you mean you can't find your CPID?


  • orbis
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    • February 08, 2018, 04:37:14 pm
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Do you mean you can't find your CPID?
No. We aren't on Rosetta Machine Leaderboard and Rosetta Project Leaderboard on BBP pool and I don't see myself in Rob's leaderboard post neither.
But I'm in Biblepay team in Rosetta and I get payment for every superblock. It's weird.
Any idea?


  • jaapgvk
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No. We aren't on Rosetta Machine Leaderboard and Rosetta Project Leaderboard on BBP pool and I don't see myself in Rob's leaderboard post neither.
But I'm in Biblepay team in Rosetta and I get payment for every superblock. It's weird.
Any idea?

That's weird indeed... I'm sorry, but I don't know how to help you, but I hope Rob can :)


  • togoshigekata
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I run a popular videogame server on a dedicated machine I rent, and it only uses 20-25% of the CPU,
I wanted to run Rosetta alongside it without interfering with the game's CPU, I looked into CPU Affinity for BOINC and there are no options for it,
But on Windows I was able to go into Task Manager >>> Details >> Right Click  boinc.exe and boincmgr.exe >>> Set Affinity
And I was able to set which CPU Cores these should use, after that I added the Rosetta Project, and the Rosetta Tasks created only used those cores  :)
If the computer restarts the affinity settings will get reset, but I only restart the machine every 2-3 months or so LOL
Its probably possible to write a .bat file to set the affinity, but eh, works good enough for me so far

Rob is there anything else you need tested? Ive just been dabbling with BOINC and getting it setup everywhere I can.
Sounds like testing has so far gone very well 8)

===

Also yeah once PODC is released will be nice to advertise/market BiblePay to users of BOINC, Rosetta, Gridcoin, Curecoin, Foldingcoin, Mediccoin, etc

We can look at how Gridcoin is advertising:
https://cryptocurrencytalk.com/topic/48655-boincstats-advertising/
https://steemit.com/gridcoin/@vortac/gridcoin-advertsing-2-expanding-our-google-adwords-budget
https://www.reddit.com/r/gridcoin/comments/4oy9w5/new_advertising_campaign_on_boincstatscom/

Looks like Banner ad on BoincStats is 300 Euros? so $370? How long does it stay up?

Id love to start playing with Google Adwords


  • Rob Andrews
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    • June 05, 2017, 08:09:04 pm
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why missing nicks in leaderboard?  ::)  thanks

me, orbis etc
You are in there - but the problem with Orbis is his computers are hidden.  Orbis you have to unhide computers to be in the leaderboard.



  • orbis
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You are in there - but the problem with Orbis is his computers are hidden.  Orbis you have to unhide computers to be in the leaderboard.
ok. I must check the settings and find it... But maybe it doesnt matter anymore, because all my VPS are ending today :)
So I will be without any "external help"...
My only 24/7 device will be my old Nexus 4 ;) and maybe this will be interresting for you Rob.
It is old phone, comparable to nowaday mid range.

I test it for 2 days now. There were some problems on beginning and I've found that I need to use only 2 of 4 cores to run it properly.
After two days: Total credit   1015 ; Average credit   89.93
https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/results.php?hostid=3352819


  • Rob Andrews
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I run a popular videogame server on a dedicated machine I rent, and it only uses 20-25% of the CPU,
I wanted to run Rosetta alongside it without interfering with the game's CPU, I looked into CPU Affinity for BOINC and there are no options for it,
But on Windows I was able to go into Task Manager >>> Details >> Right Click  boinc.exe and boincmgr.exe >>> Set Affinity
And I was able to set which CPU Cores these should use, after that I added the Rosetta Project, and the Rosetta Tasks created only used those cores  :)
If the computer restarts the affinity settings will get reset, but I only restart the machine every 2-3 months or so LOL
Its probably possible to write a .bat file to set the affinity, but eh, works good enough for me so far

Rob is there anything else you need tested? Ive just been dabbling with BOINC and getting it setup everywhere I can.
Sounds like testing has so far gone very well 8)

===

Also yeah once PODC is released will be nice to advertise/market BiblePay to users of BOINC, Rosetta, Gridcoin, Curecoin, Foldingcoin, Mediccoin, etc

We can look at how Gridcoin is advertising:
https://cryptocurrencytalk.com/topic/48655-boincstats-advertising/
https://steemit.com/gridcoin/@vortac/gridcoin-advertsing-2-expanding-our-google-adwords-budget
https://www.reddit.com/r/gridcoin/comments/4oy9w5/new_advertising_campaign_on_boincstatscom/

Looks like Banner ad on BoincStats is 300 Euros? so $370? How long does it stay up?

Id love to start playing with Google Adwords

I think most of the ad-sites will negotiate a deal, and sometimes offer a discount for quarterly over monthly.  Im not sure of the term for $370 but its probably a monthly quote.  Yeah, we should definitely look into PR budget for that.

On testing, Ive got the larger Private Send denominations in the next version, the exec leaderboard, and I havent changed max sigs yet for Instantsend, waiting on feedback to see if we need to.

Let me think about more testing ideas, right now I think we have covered the bases.

Regarding one potential feature for the integrity idea, I was thinking, if there is a way to concentrate and anonymize all cancer tasks, for example if we gave the job to the sanctuaries to issue cancer tasks, and those sancs monitored return traffic for anonymous validation, maybe we could "certify" the rosetta traffic that way.  Another words, only issue paid traffic if it flows through a sanctuary.  If we were able to monitor the traffic from a sanc, we could tally the workunits issued and validated, and the duration, and prove that those workunits were indeed solved - but I think for this idea to work, the workunits need anonymized, and more than one sig would be required on the validated work... Very tricky stuff... (It proves that workunit XYZ was submitted at timestamp 12345 and validated by Rosetta without rosetta knowing the CPID, and then validated back in Biblepay for workunit XYZ for duration ZZZ).








  • Rob Andrews
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ok. I must check the settings and find it... But maybe it doesnt matter anymore, because all my VPS are ending today :)
So I will be without any "external help"...
My only 24/7 device will be my old Nexus 4 ;) and maybe this will be interresting for you Rob.
It is old phone, comparable to nowaday mid range.

I test it for 2 days now. There were some problems on beginning and I've found that I need to use only 2 of 4 cores to run it properly.
After two days: Total credit   1015 ; Average credit   89.93
https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/results.php?hostid=3352819

Good to know dude.


  • T-Mike
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    • February 06, 2018, 06:12:58 pm
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ok. I must check the settings and find it... But maybe it doesnt matter anymore, because all my VPS are ending today :)
So I will be without any "external help"...
My only 24/7 device will be my old Nexus 4 ;) and maybe this will be interresting for you Rob.
It is old phone, comparable to nowaday mid range.

I test it for 2 days now. There were some problems on beginning and I've found that I need to use only 2 of 4 cores to run it properly.
After two days: Total credit   1015 ; Average credit   89.93
https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/results.php?hostid=3352819

Did you have to do anything to get your phone to run 24/7? I have mine plugged in but it will only work for a few hours then it will suspend it self. I have to manually start it again afterwards.


  • znffal
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    • October 02, 2017, 04:01:47 pm
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I think most of the ad-sites will negotiate a deal, and sometimes offer a discount for quarterly over monthly.  Im not sure of the term for $370 but its probably a monthly quote.  Yeah, we should definitely look into PR budget for that.

On testing, Ive got the larger Private Send denominations in the next version, the exec leaderboard, and I havent changed max sigs yet for Instantsend, waiting on feedback to see if we need to.

Let me think about more testing ideas, right now I think we have covered the bases.

Regarding one potential feature for the integrity idea, I was thinking, if there is a way to concentrate and anonymize all cancer tasks, for example if we gave the job to the sanctuaries to issue cancer tasks, and those sancs monitored return traffic for anonymous validation, maybe we could "certify" the rosetta traffic that way.  Another words, only issue paid traffic if it flows through a sanctuary.  If we were able to monitor the traffic from a sanc, we could tally the workunits issued and validated, and the duration, and prove that those workunits were indeed solved - but I think for this idea to work, the workunits need anonymized, and more than one sig would be required on the validated work... Very tricky stuff... (It proves that workunit XYZ was submitted at timestamp 12345 and validated by Rosetta without rosetta knowing the CPID, and then validated back in Biblepay for workunit XYZ for duration ZZZ).




Regarding one potential feature for the integrity idea, I was thinking, if there is a way to concentrate and anonymize all cancer tasks, for example if we gave the job to the sanctuaries to issue cancer tasks, and those sancs monitored return traffic for anonymous validation, maybe we could "certify" the rosetta traffic that way.  Another words, only issue paid traffic if it flows through a sanctuary.  If we were able to monitor the traffic from a sanc, we could tally the workunits issued and validated, and the duration, and prove that those workunits were indeed solved - but I think for this idea to work, the workunits need anonymized, and more than one sig would be required on the validated work... Very tricky stuff... (It proves that workunit XYZ was submitted at timestamp 12345 and validated by Rosetta without rosetta knowing the CPID, and then validated back in Biblepay for workunit XYZ for duration ZZZ).


Hi Rob,

Just a quick question regarding this. How much Gb of traffic do you think this would use? Would it still be OK to use a VPS like Vultr if this was implemented, or would the traffic be more than the cap they give you per month?

Thanks :)

PoDC is awesome, I can't wait for March!

Thanks
Luke



  • Rob Andrews
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One request that I would like to see considered.  Require team Biblepay to receive rewards.

Currently, we are open to exploit by a botnet.  Its believed we are losing a large and measurable percentage to botnet(s) and it's not inconceivable it could exceed 50% with little difficulty, since this is what Monero, the hybrid CPU/GPU coin is suspected to be at.

Right now, Team Biblepay is 76th, with RAC of 30K, the top team is Team Gridcoin with 4.8M RAC.  I understand the desire to reach out and open the door for more users, but I worry that the current proposal of allowing anyone to receive rewards regardless of team, allows for Gridcoin users to effectively get credit at Gridcoin as well as at Biblepay for no more work (since they can be Team Gridcoin for Gridcoin rewards, and use just their user Account Key to get BBP).  Since Gridcoin users are on some level participating in [email protected] for Cryptocurrency rewards, it seems reasonable to think many, if not most, will gravitate to BBP since they can buy 1 BBP to receive rewards.  If, and I say IF, they are there solely for the reward and we cannot minister to them, then they are no better to our core users than the botnet.  If we reached the 1% ranking, we'd have roughly 100K RAC, if 25% of the Gridcoin users started with BBP, they'd have 1M RAC, and so if we could not convert them as genuine users, we'd be back to a 10% - 90% split with the majority of the coins going to people outside our user base.  Additionally, by not requiring team Biblepay membership, we lose a valuable asset which is the PR benefit from the overall ranking on [email protected] which could very easily be top 10 to maybe top 5 in a very short period of time.  Because without requiring to be a part of team Biblepay, most of our users I believe will end up on team Gridcoin as that would make the most financial sense.

I believe the goal to move to PoDC is a good one.  This particular piece of the puzzle however, I am concerned about and think needs addressed before the implementation.

In the end, the question to me boils down to, are there many [email protected] users we can reach out to that would not join us if they had to leave their current teams.  If so, can we reach more users with our own higher ranking team?


Yes, you have valid concerns.  I have always actually been on the side of the fence where the least the researcher can do is join the team in order to receive rewards.  I have held Rob Halfords perspective on double dipping, back when Ripple offered a chance to receive Ripple rewards for boinc users, if they crunch a certain project- at that time one of the same projects Gridcoin users crunched.  The rule in Gridcoin was those users must be within the team in order to receive rewards, and that prevented double rewards from both Ripple and Gridcoin.

However I saw a lot of scalability arguments against the team requirement and I guess I originally thought, hey lets solve that problem with Biblepay!  Lets make a feature where we have unlimited scalability and open the door to the massive Boinc Userbase (of over 1 million accounts).  So, under the hood Biblepay is now prepared for that.  We can literally handle the entire Boinc userbase if necessary (it requires us to increment a flag to send out multiple superblock payments per day, but we dont have to monkey with that feature until we have more than 32767 researchers on board).

But honing in on this issue Ive actually always been on the side of the fence where a miner should provide some value for us, and with that, they receive rewards, and have more of a propensity to buy and hold BBP for the long term - and be a loyal user (in contrast to a miner who comes and uses us, and pumps n dumps the coin).

So, in light of that view, I think we need to support requiring the team in order to mine biblepay.  We still support unlimited users, but the user must jump in and modify the team from the Rosetta account and join our team to receive rewards.

This way, when we go live, we will not only eliminate the botnet, but we will only have loyal users pulling slices of the BBP pie per day.  This will allow us to grow slowly in an organic Christian way, we can reach out to small swaths at a time and promote Christian values and see if we scare them away.

Great idea, Im going to add two features to the core client:
1) A system wide spork, to hold the Team Required Value (our team=15044 btw, Biblepay).
2) If the spork is active, PODC payments require Team Biblepay
3) The SanctuaryQuorum will be modified to log the users team in the contract
4) The exec getboincinfo will be modified to display the team, and display a corresponding warning if the team is required, enabled, and the user is not part of the team:  Warning - This CPID is not part of team Biblepay - This CPID is not receiving rewards for research work

Etc

We will need everyone to upgrade to test this.


Client will be ready in 2 hours.



  • jaapgvk
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I'm happy to read about the latest implementation which ads the 'biblepay team' requirement. I already read Wests post, but I didn't find the space in myself to react till now.

I like the saying: "If you build it, they will come." And if we have a well thought out 'product' (I don't know better word at this time), I think people who's ideals align with those of Biblepay and happen to stumble upon us, will probably stick around.

Another thing I just wanted to say: I'm still positive about this project. What makes me uncomfortable from time to time though, is the - in my opinion - well meaning people leaving this project in discontent. There are a lot of variables at play here, so I want to stay as neutral as possible (people are people, and they act like people, as they have done for millennia). But I would personally would feel more comfortable in this community if there would be a bit more room for everyone's views, even if they don't align with the route this project is taking. But that's just my view ;)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 08:37:27 am by jaapgvk »