Bible Pay

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  • Rob Andrews
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This idea stems from the desire to appeal to a large user base (IE mass PR/Advertising), without paying a lot of advertising dollars per new user, new user retention, and price appreciation.


What this theoretically does right off the bat is makes BBP more valuable, because we can set this up to ensure that at least the same value of BBP locks up an equivalent or more amount of DASH.  For those who do it, they receive the interest reward.  Those that dont are 'out of the loop' and they will strive to either do it or maybe exit and sell off the coins.

- Doing this would theoretically mean unlimited popularity - since this would appeal to the Entire Dash Investor group
 (I believe this would be more than 100,000 distinct users).  The appeal is, we are saying IF you hold a DASH UTXO, and a BBP UTXO, you receive the DWS reward (about 30% ROI).
I think a lot of Dash investors would consider doing this, because that means earning BBP on their DASH without liquidating DASH.
- Elements of a stable price (currency backed by another currency).  Since BBP would lock up an equiv. amount of DASH, theoretically our price would rise as more and more come in to buy more BBP to lock up dash.
- Rewards for the Dash investor base that currently do not receive rewards.
- Higher interest rewards for BiblePay users who diversified over more than one currency:  This is because with POOS coming, a lot of sancs have no avenue to earn rewards.  With DASH backed rewards, they can put that BBP in the Dash-BBP bucket.
- A 'non participation penalty' for coins that sit for sale on exchanges
- Diversification:  This makes BBP much more like a stablecoin.  This means if you hold $1K of BBP and $1K of DASH, and earn 30% per year, you have twice the chance of weather a crypto-meltdown than if you simply hold one currency.  It might also bring some positive reputation to BIBLEPAY also, to be yoked with DASH much more tightly.
- In wallet - your keys - so you control the security on this - and you do not have to give up your DASH keys or your BBP keys
- DASH has 560% new users in Venezuela this year - and this goes hand in hand with our initiative to provide a stipend to VZ citizens to help them (IE a weekly bread allowance in BBP)
Also our ties with "dashpay" allow users of BBP to spend DASH - therefore we have a positive relationship in spending BBP to dash merchants also.


Here is theoretically how this system would work:


BBP would strive to ask users to lock every UTXO with a matching DASH UTXO of equal value or more, in order to create a contract for that UTXO. 
(They would click a command that locks the Dash UTXO-Priv-Key against the BBP-UTXO-PrivKey creating a contract - and at that particular time the DASH UTXO must be greater in price than the BBP UTXO they hold - IE $1050 for Dash and $900 for BBP is OK for a duration of say 90 days).   The BBP wallet would record a current interest rate reward (depending on how long the lock is).  BBP would constantly monitor both the DASH UTXO and the BBP UTXO.  If either is spent, the contract will be nullified.  However, if neither is spent, each month, the BBP user would receive a reward automatically from the coinbase - containing the interest component.  The Lock would continue in place until the duration expires.  (So a 6 month lock would equal 6 coupon payments).

For security purposes, we would not ask the Dash user to give us their private keys - instead we will have them sign the UTXO from the dash wallet using a command we provide, and they will paste the sig into the bbp command.  This will prove ownership of the UTXO on the BBP side- then we will monitor it until its spent.  On the BBP side we will sign their UTXO ourselves and put all this in a contract.

The BBP wallet would pull information from the DASH network to know about their UTXOs automaticaly, and memorize them.  It would then REJECT new contracts that are attempted on spent UTXOs automatically.  Anyone who spends a DASH UTXO mid contract would cause cancellation of the contract, therefore they would lose the upcoming dividend strip.

One thing I like particularly is the free advertising.  Its very difficult to advertise a crypto without paying massive coinbase emission or campaign fees. 

Note that I am not creating this because I hold any DASH myself.  I actually dont have much DASH right now, but I would be willing to do this myself as I can see the value in gaining diversification away from the USD and into dual-cryptos at once.




EDIT:  I am adding the following summary (as of September 5th, 2020) for the sake of the production vote to authorize us to release this first version of dashstake into production:

- This is version 1.0 of DashStake Rewards.  It only rewards users for locked UTXOs that tie DASH + BBP together in a contract.
- This rewards the user a once per month reward, if the contract is still active.  The contract is active if it is not expired, and both the BBP and the DASH UTXOs are not spent.
- (In the next thread (to be created soon), we can discuss a more complicated idea, where we will create a sustainable use case for BBP (a marketplace for buying and selling the staked reward component), and opening up more currency pairs than just DASH+BBP) however this initial system being released is the 'simple' version.
- In production, we authorize Dash/BBP homogenized rewards to share the DWS reward pool, for up to 6 months.  In the next mandatory design in testnet, we will measure the emissions and create a plan to not defer from the original emission covenant (as, we are committed to NEVER spending more than we promised over the long term emission schedule).  This means that we intend to limit our emissions to 2.84 B by the end of 2021.
- In production, the Dash+BBP DWS rate will start out high (about 53%) due to the codes allocation from the kitty, but this will drop as demand increases. 
- I estimate that we will pay no more than 20MM BBP before the end of the year in rewards (based on our budget of 4.3MM in monthly whale stakes allocated in http://wiki.biblepay.org/Emission_Schedule_2020 ).
- We will discuss a more sustainable future for DWS rewards in our upcoming thread, meaning that we desire to have a revenue stream for BBP that helps pay for these rewards, very soon in production.  It is my desire to charge either fees or marketplace charges to recoup a large percent of these rewards in our next design, and, to roll this out within 6 months so as to lower the costs yet provide a useful service for the world.
- Part of the impetus of this reward system is creating a partnership with Dash, their investor base, and establishing a PR campaign around DashStake BBP Rewards.

This proposal authorizes the BiblePay Devs to release this feature into Production as of block 221170 (September 20th, 2020).



« Last Edit: September 05, 2020, 10:49:51 AM by Rob Andrews »


  • sunk818
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Is this what DWS (Dynamic Whale Staking) will change to?
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  • Rob Andrews
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Is this what DWS (Dynamic Whale Staking) will change to?


I considered that possibility, of removing the DWS budget and making Dash Whale Staking (IE the same initials)-- but, Im really not too keen of removing DWS (dynamic whale staking) because not only do people use it now, but we have a feature coming out in the next release that allows the user to send a DWS via the UI (via SendCoins, via a checkbox for DWS).  And, Ely had a pretty good idea to ask MIP to add DWS to the mobile wallet for Venezuelan citizens to use it to replace their bank account (IE they could click a big red button that allows them to burn a DWS and receive rewards) and thats cools because it fights their constant inflation.

Anyway, the good news is we have this APM - automatic price mooning - going into production soon which should be highly deflationary for us - restricting our capital to be spent when our price is rising.

So I feel like what we should do is design this system as a proof of concept, or prototype, and allocate a budget to it.  I feel what we can do is release it while APM is ON, (which restricts emissions), get a feel for how big the whales would be who use Dash-DWS, and monitor our emissions and then make a game plan to ensure we square up our emission schedule to match the template (as Im committed to matching the original template year over year).  I sort of feel that emissions wont be huge in either DWS or Dash-DWS that puts it out of balance with the reduction effect of APM concurrently.    (This is partially due to the fact that both DWS can be governed by a percentage of new coin emissions which constantly get smaller as times goes on due to our 21% deflation rule - another words its partially self enforcing.  In 2023, we are emitting much smaller blocks and DWS must be a much smaller percentage etc).

The main thing Id like to focus on are the pros of this.  Ive been thinking about the desire for hedges in the world, and if cryptocurrency is a big hedge then this would be a boon (a product in demand for the future).

I can elaborate on this because the array of investments out there include:  stocks, bonds, crypto, long-term-food-storage, cash, hard metals, etc.

The question is will crypto survive if the world moves to a new world order, while USD collapses? 

The simple answer might be we offer a form of diversification and we are getting ready early before the demand occurs?



  • sunk818
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So, in terms of fiat value, I'd have to hold equal amounts of DASH and BBP as a UTXO to get the 30% ROI? And how is 30% calculated? Would it be paid out in BBP? [/size]Will dashpay continue to be a BBP options, so for DASH investors that want to convert some BBP to DASH, they still can easily? I'm thinking of a situation where you would need to rebalance your portfolio because BBP price has risen and DASH has not, so you'd need to reallocate some BBP to DASH for optimal interest rewards.
[/size]
[/size]Is the ROI percentage locked in for 90 days (or however many days) even if the fiat price of the respective altcoins change?
[/size]
[/size]On the DASH wallet side, is a desktop wallet required or could a DASH electrum wallet also be able to submit whatever command is required to lock the DASH?
[/size]

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  • sunk818
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So, in terms of fiat value, I'd have to hold equal amounts of DASH and BBP as a UTXO to get the 30% ROI? And how is 30% calculated? Would it be paid out in BBP? Will dashpay continue to be a BBP options, so for DASH investors that want to convert some BBP to DASH, they still can easily? I'm thinking of a situation where you would need to rebalance your portfolio because BBP price has risen and DASH has not, so you'd need to reallocate some BBP to DASH for optimal interest rewards.Is the ROI percentage locked in for 90 days (or however many days) even if the fiat price of the respective altcoins change?

On the DASH wallet side, is a desktop wallet required or could a DASH electrum wallet also be able to submit whatever command is required to lock the DASH?
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  • Rob Andrews
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So, in terms of fiat value, I'd have to hold equal amounts of DASH and BBP as a UTXO to get the 30% ROI?


And how is 30% calculated? Would it be paid out in BBP?
Will dashpay continue to be a BBP options, so for DASH investors that want to convert some BBP to DASH, they still can easily?

 I'm thinking of a situation where you would need to rebalance your portfolio because BBP price has risen and DASH has not, so you'd need to reallocate some BBP
to DASH for optimal interest rewards.

Is the ROI percentage locked in for 90 days (or however many days) even if the fiat price of the respective altcoins change?

On the DASH wallet side, is a desktop wallet required or could a DASH electrum wallet
 also be able to submit whatever command is required to lock the DASH?



So, in terms of fiat value, I'd have to hold equal amounts of DASH and BBP as a UTXO to get the 30% ROI?

->  I've been creating a code prototype so now I can answer these questions with theoretical confidence (in contrast to the original idea).
The Dash-Stake would enter the BBP chain with a 1bbp BURN contract, referencing two UTXOs:  THE BBP UTXO, and the Dash UTXO.
Your ROI would be based on the lower of the two market values at the time the contract is created, but, denominated in BBP.
So if you reference $1K of BBP and $2k of DASH, your contract will reference the quantity of biblepay $1k represents.  We never allow a contract to represent more BBP than the BBP UTXO however, so we use the MINimum of those two also.



And how is 30% calculated? Would it be paid out in BBP?
->  Yes, the 30% is paid out in BBP as amonthly STRIP reward.  (This is a reward at the tail end of the days GSC contract).


Will dashpay continue to be a BBP options, so for DASH investors that want to convert some BBP to DASH, they still can easily?
->  Yes, dashpay will still work also.



 I'm thinking of a situation where you would need to rebalance your portfolio because BBP price has risen and DASH has not, so you'd need to reallocate some BBP
to DASH for optimal interest rewards.
->  Yes, the contracts will be 6 months long each at first ( later we might allow the user to tailor that but I want to think about that more first so now its 6 months duration for all).  If it gets out of balance, you can create a new contract. 


Is the ROI percentage locked in for 90 days (or however many days) even if the fiat price of the respective altcoins change?
->  The ROI itself is locked, regardless of the price of the fluctuating currencies.  The only thing that can cause a contract to nullify is if the user spends one or the other UTXOs.


On the DASH wallet side, is a desktop wallet required or could a DASH electrum wallet
 also be able to submit whatever command is required to lock the DASH?
-> They will have to type 'signmessage UTXO-ordinal' into the RPC-- and it has to be signed with the coin that owns the UTXO -- this is something you can help me with - see if electrum supports signing messages.










  • sunk818
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Okay, I like this idea more after running the calculation. It'd currently take about 10 DASH to equal 1 BBP sanctuary (4.5M BBP). A 30% return on BBP would currently be $271, while a 1% fractional masternode would net $47. So, between DASH and BBP, BBP becomes the better option to buy and hold.


https://masternode.live/currencies/DASH/Dash (10 DASH nets $47 when annualized).


Of course, I think an ongoing ROI chart would be helpful, but I think BBP has a lot of room to reduce in price and/or DASH would have to significantly increase in price for DASH to be the winner in this scenario.
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  • Rob Andrews
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Okay, I like this idea more after running the calculation. It'd currently take about 10 DASH to equal 1 BBP sanctuary (4.5M BBP). A 30% return on BBP would currently be $271, while a 1% fractional masternode would net $47. So, between DASH and BBP, BBP becomes the better option to buy and hold.


https://masternode.live/currencies/DASH/Dash (10 DASH nets $47 when annualized).


Of course, I think an ongoing ROI chart would be helpful, but I think BBP has a lot of room to reduce in price and/or DASH would have to significantly increase in price for DASH to be the winner in this scenario.

Yes, it gives an extra avenue of use case to BBP.

One thing we may be able to do with it is market it as a truly useful and resilient investment like this:

- For those who desire crypto exposure (think Christians with a retirement account and 0 crypto):
we recommend they buy $10K of dash and $10K of BBP, and between the two they are highly diversified.
They earn a hefty ROI at the same time.

And hedge against devaluation of the USD.



  • sunk818
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Are BBP sanctuaries and DASH masternodes eligible for DASH-DWS?
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  • MIP
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I think that, as many fiat currencies start melting down, cryptos are going to be considered as a more acceptable reserve of value and income generation tool.

So I think this is a really great idea.

Also if the idea is successful, we could even replicate the mechanism to a multi-collateral backed rewards using other top-tier Masternode coins (PiVX, ZCoin, SmartCash...) or even non-MN coins.


  • Rob Andrews
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Are BBP sanctuaries and DASH masternodes eligible for DASH-DWS?

BBP Sancs and Dash sancs are blocked from using those UTXOs (as its pretty much considered double dipping).



  • Rob Andrews
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I think that, as many fiat currencies start melting down, cryptos are going to be considered as a more acceptable reserve of value and income generation tool.

So I think this is a really great idea.

Also if the idea is successful, we could even replicate the mechanism to a multi-collateral backed rewards using other top-tier Masternode coins (PiVX, ZCoin, SmartCash...) or even non-MN coins.

Thanks, and I enjoyed the discussion we had about custom tailored crypto portfolios, long hedge portfolios in crypto, the equiv of a DJIA in crypto, passing the howey test, self directed portfolio management decisions, DAI, Maker, stablecoins, interest rate supply and demand, and a solid biblepay use case (and revenue generation model).

Let's hope from these discussions we can actually design a next generation use case, similar to DeFi, but for the bitcoin side.