Bible Pay

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  • sntjo2847
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    • May 21, 2021, 02:55:13 PM
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I have a question about APM(Automatic Price Mooning)

What parts of the block reward are subject to this? It is clear that sanctuaries and randomx mining are subject to APM. Are portfolio builder rewards and the 5% monthly budget subject to it? Are they reduced by the same %?


  • Rob Andrews
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    • June 05, 2017, 08:09:04 PM
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I have a question about APM(Automatic Price Mooning)

What parts of the block reward are subject to this? It is clear that sanctuaries and randomx mining are subject to APM. Are portfolio builder rewards and the 5% monthly budget subject to it? Are they reduced by the same %?

Only the coinbase is reduced (the sanc reward, plus the mining reward).  The monthly budget is not affected and the daily UTXO rewards are not affected.
We deliberately did that of course to be able to have a budget (when we have enough marketcap to actually have a budget again). 
In order to pull that off we had to tweak the budget estimator to use a non-apm subsidy estimate.



8200 BBP


  • Rob Andrews
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I tried creating a DOGE stake; I sent an amount of DOGE from Trust Wallet to itself ending with the PIN over 4 hours ago.  It doesn't show up at all in the leaderboard, and 'listutxostakes 0' says that I have 0 DOGE staked.  In Portfolio Builder, when I click on 'Query UTXO', it shows the change received from the transaction, which went to the same address, 'DNrVShF3dp1gj6KaPGfR6ADdhU4WQEE3yX', and that amount doesn't end in the PIN, of course.  The PIN for the DOGE address ends in '0'.  Could it be that the trailing zero in the amount staked is getting dropped, so the PIN isn't being recognized?
Hi Alee,

So I think you might be experiencing a transaction deduction issue from the provider you sent it from.  When I reproduce with your DOGE address I see the pin is supposed to be 75720 (its ok this is publicaly calculable) and the amount sent to the address is 1.58372072 leading me to believe a fee was deducted first.

If you are sending to trustwallet from binance or from SX, on SX you have to pay the fee yourself, and on binance you have to take out your calculator and add the fee on first.  Bottom line is the address has to receive '75720' for it to count (in the suffix).  On binance I add the fee on with my calculator for example...




8200 BBP


  • sntjo2847
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    • May 21, 2021, 02:55:13 PM
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Only the coinbase is reduced (the sanc reward, plus the mining reward).  The monthly budget is not affected and the daily UTXO rewards are not affected.
We deliberately did that of course to be able to have a budget (when we have enough marketcap to actually have a budget again). 
In order to pull that off we had to tweak the budget estimator to use a non-apm subsidy estimate.
Ok, thank you for the information. That is what I thought was happening from reading the code, but there is a lot of code and I am not very familiar with the biblepay code.

I hope you do not mind all the questions. I have another one:
Is the recent increase in average block time intentional? Illustration:
The last 1000 blocks (279163 - 280162) took 5 days, 23 hours, 18 minutes (8598 minutes) for an average block time of 8.598 minutes/block.
At an average of 7 min block or 24 hour * 60 min / 205 ~= 7.024 min/block there should have been 1224 blocks in that amount of time.
Which means we "lost" 224 blocks - more than a whole day.

Please note that if it is intentional, I am guessing it is due to a previous over-emission of blocks or bbp. I am curious though.


  • Rob Andrews
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** Orphan NFTs are now Available **


I am very pleased to announce the new Orphan NFTs that are finally available from Cameroon One!

http://foundation.biblepay.org/NFTOrphans

You can also click on NFT Orphans from the "Orphans" left menu in the pool...

So we had 4 orphans created by Cameroon-One (with 90 day durations), and two are already sponsored!

Praise God!

To sponsor one just send BBP to your pool account.  Also you can actually buy nfts or sponsor orphans from the core wallet with the 'buynft' rpc command if you want to stay anonymous...

We didnt forget about anonymous centric users - you can also create anonymous UTXO retirement accounts in portfolio builder by leaving your nickname as N/A...

On another side note, we have Orphan NFTs on Biblepay-TV in testnet!  See the Biblepay-TV testnet thread for more information.



8200 BBP


  • Rob Andrews
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Ok, thank you for the information. That is what I thought was happening from reading the code, but there is a lot of code and I am not very familiar with the biblepay code.

I hope you do not mind all the questions. I have another one:
Is the recent increase in average block time intentional? Illustration:
The last 1000 blocks (279163 - 280162) took 5 days, 23 hours, 18 minutes (8598 minutes) for an average block time of 8.598 minutes/block.
At an average of 7 min block or 24 hour * 60 min / 205 ~= 7.024 min/block there should have been 1224 blocks in that amount of time.
Which means we "lost" 224 blocks - more than a whole day.

Please note that if it is intentional, I am guessing it is due to a previous over-emission of blocks or bbp. I am curious though.

Well first of all, no I don't mind any questions as long as they don't attract hackers to some public conversation that would hurt us, but this is obviously fine;

Next let me clarify on our 7 minute block target, on the point where you asked if it was intentional that we were emitting slow; This is not intentional in any way.

Let me expound that bitcoin, is off by something like a Year on their masterclock; this is entirely normal when the chain goes through periods that are increasing in difficulty (I think in the last quarter, in our case, generally, our randomx miners doubled their mining efforts in the Fun pool- we went from a diff of 1 to a diff of 7-8 and back to 3 or so), so I think we had an increasing diff and that slowed the block rate down a little; so we are actually much less volatile than bitcoin in general since genesis;

But to your point, I am extremely concerned with fair weight and measures in biblepay (proverbs 16:11), so much that we have a dedicated masterclock command (from the rpc, you can type 'exec masterclock' and see the metric and suggestions) that gives us the guide to whether we should speed up the masterclock-- and we actually have sped it up.  When we went from POBH to RX, we had a period of slow emissions, and we sped it up from 420 seconds to 370 seconds, in accordance with the estimated adjustment in the masterclock output; so its actually running at a 13%+ tweak in speed right now to catch us up... Another words it will probably speed up naturally over the next quarter without doing anything; what we do is we can speed it up even more if we dont eventually see 6 min blocks by next quarter, for example.

This is not based on our emission target though.  Our emission target was definitely too high up to 2020 due to overspending on DWS; but we reacted vehemently with APM and that actually corrected the emission problem completely (which just finished actually); but if you type 'gettxoutsetinfo' you will see this is complete, we made up for that, thank God, and we are right on schedule now.  Our emissions perfectly match the schedule and should hit the exact number roughly in Dec this year..  Our only problem now is praying to God to remove our sell wall on SX.. I think that is our biggest hole to climb out of.  Other than that, we have no debt to anyone, and fair weights and measures here (a fair mining algorithm with double compensation and no electricity costs etc), and Im committed to speeding up the master clock over time to reach the exact block count since genesis etc.




8200 BBP


  • alee67
  • Jr. Member

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    • May 25, 2020, 05:29:56 AM
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Hi Alee,

So I think you might be experiencing a transaction deduction issue from the provider you sent it from.  When I reproduce with your DOGE address I see the pin is supposed to be 75720 (its ok this is publicaly calculable) and the amount sent to the address is 1.58372072 leading me to believe a fee was deducted first.

If you are sending to trustwallet from binance or from SX, on SX you have to pay the fee yourself, and on binance you have to take out your calculator and add the fee on first.  Bottom line is the address has to receive '75720' for it to count (in the suffix).  On binance I add the fee on with my calculator for example...




8200 BBP

That was the change, worth about $0.40.  I sent the stake from my Trust Wallet address back to my Trust Wallet address, so both outputs went to the same address.  This is the transaction:

https://blockchair.com/dogecoin/transaction/bc157112f04f5e2f9d64d7a3a2d8ea706dfb501516a600a930aa3e5509b4c700?from=trustwallet

1000 BBP


  • Rob Andrews
  • Administrator

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    • June 05, 2017, 08:09:04 PM
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That was the change, worth about $0.40.  I sent the stake from my Trust Wallet address back to my Trust Wallet address, so both outputs went to the same address.  This is the transaction:

https://blockchair.com/dogecoin/transaction/bc157112f04f5e2f9d64d7a3a2d8ea706dfb501516a600a930aa3e5509b4c700?from=trustwallet
Bottom line is, your DOGE address, DNr*, has an unspent output from TXID bc157112f04f5e2f9d64d7a3a2d8ea706dfb501516a600a930aa3e5509b4c700 for 1.58372072 and not for
1.5875720 like we require.

Here is the current UTXO:
https://api.blockchair.com/dogecoin/dashboards/address/DNrVShF3dp1gj6KaPGfR6ADdhU4WQEE3yX

Our users need to adjust the utxos to end in the correct pin suffix - or they do not count.

I've sent DOGE from binance and from coinbase to trustwallet, and yes you do have control over what you send to your address if you check further into the fees. 

If you are wondering why they are not additive, for security purposes, we do not allow non matching UTXOs to be additive.  Each pin matched UTXO counts and is additive.




8200 BBP
« Last Edit: July 05, 2021, 01:33:30 PM by Rob Andrews »


  • sntjo2847
  • Jr. Member

    • 45


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    • May 21, 2021, 02:55:13 PM
    more
Well first of all, no I don't mind any questions as long as they don't attract hackers to some public conversation that would hurt us, but this is obviously fine;

Next let me clarify on our 7 minute block target, on the point where you asked if it was intentional that we were emitting slow; This is not intentional in any way.

Let me expound that bitcoin, is off by something like a Year on their masterclock; this is entirely normal when the chain goes through periods that are increasing in difficulty (I think in the last quarter, in our case, generally, our randomx miners doubled their mining efforts in the Fun pool- we went from a diff of 1 to a diff of 7-8 and back to 3 or so), so I think we had an increasing diff and that slowed the block rate down a little; so we are actually much less volatile than bitcoin in general since genesis;

But to your point, I am extremely concerned with fair weight and measures in biblepay (proverbs 16:11), so much that we have a dedicated masterclock command (from the rpc, you can type 'exec masterclock' and see the metric and suggestions) that gives us the guide to whether we should speed up the masterclock-- and we actually have sped it up.  When we went from POBH to RX, we had a period of slow emissions, and we sped it up from 420 seconds to 370 seconds, in accordance with the estimated adjustment in the masterclock output; so its actually running at a 13%+ tweak in speed right now to catch us up... Another words it will probably speed up naturally over the next quarter without doing anything; what we do is we can speed it up even more if we dont eventually see 6 min blocks by next quarter, for example.

This is not based on our emission target though.  Our emission target was definitely too high up to 2020 due to overspending on DWS; but we reacted vehemently with APM and that actually corrected the emission problem completely (which just finished actually); but if you type 'gettxoutsetinfo' you will see this is complete, we made up for that, thank God, and we are right on schedule now.  Our emissions perfectly match the schedule and should hit the exact number roughly in Dec this year..  Our only problem now is praying to God to remove our sell wall on SX.. I think that is our biggest hole to climb out of.  Other than that, we have no debt to anyone, and fair weights and measures here (a fair mining algorithm with double compensation and no electricity costs etc), and Im committed to speeding up the master clock over time to reach the exact block count since genesis etc.




8200 BBP
Yeah, if I had a question that I thought might do something like that I would send a PM or maybe an email, not post here.

Thank you once again for a clear detailed explanation. It definitely cleared things up for me!

In regards to the sell wall, is a lot of that from all the Sanctuaries that shutdown recently? At 4.2 million each, that is a lot of BBP. I noticed that there were quite a few less since the mandatory update.


  • alee67
  • Jr. Member

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    • May 25, 2020, 05:29:56 AM
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Bottom line is, your DOGE address, DNr*, has an unspent output from TXID bc157112f04f5e2f9d64d7a3a2d8ea706dfb501516a600a930aa3e5509b4c700 for 1.58372072 and not for
1.5875720 like we require.

Here is the current UTXO:
https://api.blockchair.com/dogecoin/dashboards/address/DNrVShF3dp1gj6KaPGfR6ADdhU4WQEE3yX

Our users need to adjust the utxos to end in the correct pin suffix - or they do not count.

I've sent DOGE from binance and from coinbase to trustwallet, and yes you do have control over what you send to your address if you check further into the fees. 

If you are wondering why they are not additive, for security purposes, we do not allow non matching UTXOs to be additive.  Each pin matched UTXO counts and is additive.

It's the other UTXO output from the transaction to the same address, for 402.0007572(0) DOGE, that's supposed to be the stake: https://blockchair.com/dogecoin/transaction/bc157112f04f5e2f9d64d7a3a2d8ea706dfb501516a600a930aa3e5509b4c700?from=trustwallet.  The smaller amount was the change.

1000 BBP


  • Rob Andrews
  • Administrator

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    • June 05, 2017, 08:09:04 PM
    • Patmos, Island Of
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Yeah, if I had a question that I thought might do something like that I would send a PM or maybe an email, not post here.

Thank you once again for a clear detailed explanation. It definitely cleared things up for me!

In regards to the sell wall, is a lot of that from all the Sanctuaries that shutdown recently? At 4.2 million each, that is a lot of BBP. I noticed that there were quite a few less since the mandatory update.

Thanks bro Joseph-

So on the sell wall.....  Here is my best explanation:
- In 2017 and 2018 up to the point where bitcoin reached $20K, we didnt have a sell wall (and we sponsored 300 orphans per month)
- After BTC crashed, I remember we started going through hard times.  We dropped from 300 orphans to 90 or so and sort of gravitated there.
At the same time, we discontinued PODC (primarily because I saw very stagnant leaderboard participation, IE hovering at less than 100 users and no growth).
So this is where we started 'alternative' ideas, like POG and things that led to UTXO.
Anyway I feel that this particular time, the end of 2018 is when we built up a 40MM sell wall (from PODC miners who left the project).  They put some coins up for sale and quit biblepay.
- We sat at 40MM sell wall for a very long time, all the way to May 2021.
I noticed in May, we actually almost got to 0, we had someone buy about 100MM bbp but they pump n dumped us and put it all back up for sale last month.
So I dont think it was this upgrade (it happened before we transitioned to POOM).
It had more to do with some big pump n dump.  Coincidentally, BTC was skyrocketing at the time; BTC was at $63K, so I feel it was a speculative buyer that bought us, thought he would influence the price to go higher; nothing happened, then he put his whole stash up for sale higher (and if I remember right, this caused the sell wall to go from 40MM up to about 140MM, then over a couple weeks to 200MM - why the excess - my hypothesis is some sellers came out of the woodwork cause they saw a huge spike in BBP that week and want to insure they get out on the next spike so now we have 205MM sell wall total which is our highest ever).  (Too bad he didnt hold on to half of it for a long term investment etc.)

No our sanc count has been between 35-45 for 9 months so no I dont believe it has anything to do with sancs.  I do know that 6 of them didnt even upgrade (we had 6 more sancs before the upgrade) and it looks to me those 6 failed to upgrade.   


8200 BBP
« Last Edit: July 05, 2021, 07:08:14 PM by Rob Andrews »


  • Rob Andrews
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It's the other UTXO output from the transaction to the same address, for 402.0007572(0) DOGE, that's supposed to be the stake: https://blockchair.com/dogecoin/transaction/bc157112f04f5e2f9d64d7a3a2d8ea706dfb501516a600a930aa3e5509b4c700?from=trustwallet.  The smaller amount was the change.

Oh that one, ok yeah your right, I didn't see that one, it does end in your pin.

Ok, I see the problem.  Luckily this has been resolved without an upgrade.  Basically, I had to change a setting that allows the TXID plus the ordinal to be a valid transaction hash (in contrast to just the plain old txid).  Now it sees all txids on the network (even if we have more than one per transaction hash).

Now you are in the leaderboard...  Sorry about that...



8200 BBP


  • alee67
  • Jr. Member

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    • May 25, 2020, 05:29:56 AM
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Oh that one, ok yeah your right, I didn't see that one, it does end in your pin.

Ok, I see the problem.  Luckily this has been resolved without an upgrade.  Basically, I had to change a setting that allows the TXID plus the ordinal to be a valid transaction hash (in contrast to just the plain old txid).  Now it sees all txids on the network (even if we have more than one per transaction hash).

Now you are in the leaderboard...  Sorry about that...

Thanks for fixing this!  If I understand correctly, the problem before was that it was only looking for one output in the transaction with my foreign coin address, and when it found the change output with that address (since I was sending it from my address back to itself), it didn't look at the other output that had the same address?

1000 BBP


  • sntjo2847
  • Jr. Member

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    • May 21, 2021, 02:55:13 PM
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Thanks bro Joseph-

So on the sell wall.....  Here is my best explanation:
- In 2017 and 2018 up to the point where bitcoin reached $20K, we didnt have a sell wall (and we sponsored 300 orphans per month)
- After BTC crashed, I remember we started going through hard times.  We dropped from 300 orphans to 90 or so and sort of gravitated there.
At the same time, we discontinued PODC (primarily because I saw very stagnant leaderboard participation, IE hovering at less than 100 users and no growth).
So this is where we started 'alternative' ideas, like POG and things that led to UTXO.
Anyway I feel that this particular time, the end of 2018 is when we built up a 40MM sell wall (from PODC miners who left the project).  They put some coins up for sale and quit biblepay.
- We sat at 40MM sell wall for a very long time, all the way to May 2021.
I noticed in May, we actually almost got to 0, we had someone buy about 100MM bbp but they pump n dumped us and put it all back up for sale last month.
So I dont think it was this upgrade (it happened before we transitioned to POOM).
It had more to do with some big pump n dump.  Coincidentally, BTC was skyrocketing at the time; BTC was at $63K, so I feel it was a speculative buyer that bought us, thought he would influence the price to go higher; nothing happened, then he put his whole stash up for sale higher (and if I remember right, this caused the sell wall to go from 40MM up to about 140MM, then over a couple weeks to 200MM - why the excess - my hypothesis is some sellers came out of the woodwork cause they saw a huge spike in BBP that week and want to insure they get out on the next spike so now we have 205MM sell wall total which is our highest ever).  (Too bad he didnt hold on to half of it for a long term investment etc.)

No our sanc count has been between 35-45 for 9 months so no I dont believe it has anything to do with sancs.  I do know that 6 of them didnt even upgrade (we had 6 more sancs before the upgrade) and it looks to me those 6 failed to upgrade.   


8200 BBP
Ok, so it probably has nothing to do with the sanctuaries that went offline. They may not have even noticed that they are offline yet. Even if those 6 had put them up for sale, I guess that is only 25.2 MM. I am not sure I would include what is for sale above 3x the current price as a sell wall though. That's still roughly 139 MM though, which is a lot of BBP.


  • Rob Andrews
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    • June 05, 2017, 08:09:04 PM
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Thanks for fixing this!  If I understand correctly, the problem before was that it was only looking for one output in the transaction with my foreign coin address, and when it found the change output with that address (since I was sending it from my address back to itself), it didn't look at the other output that had the same address?

Yeah we have a configuration rule per coin type to behave a certain way per vout, and with DOGE it was forced to use one txid per set of vouts and not allowed to have more than one amount per txid; now it can have multiple txids-vouts per doge txid, so that means it can find it now.



8200 BBP