Bible Pay

Poll

Should we require a certain amount of BBP per RAC for PODC2.0?

No - no entry barrier, Core wallet does not need to run (see A below)
2 (11.8%)
RAC ^ 1.30 (See B)
12 (70.6%)
RAC ^ 1.43 (See B)
1 (5.9%)
RAC ^ 1.56 (See B)
1 (5.9%)
RAC ^ 1.69 (See B)
1 (5.9%)
RAC ^ 1.82 (See B)
0 (0%)
RAC ^ 1.95 (See B)
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: November 11, 2019, 01:08:46 pm

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  • Rob Andrews
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BBP per RAC requirement for PODC2.0?
« on: October 28, 2019, 01:08:46 pm »
NOTE:

In PODC 2.0, we are creating an "external purse" meaning, that you can send extra BBP from your main wallet to your purse, and this purse will be used to stake collateral (so the wallet never needs unlocked to participate in PODC).

However:  Even with this nice feature, operations will work like this : either A or B:

A)  No BBP per rac is required.  No coin*age is required.  Nothing is spent from the purse day to day, and users may leave the computer off, run WCG/Cancer miners for a month, and receive 30 rewards.

Option B:

B)  Rac to the power of the exponent in coin-age is required.  The collateral amount is sent *daily* from the purse.  Although the wallet does *not* need to be unlocked, the core wallet does need to be running (and the POBH miner does not need to be running) - this is so the core wallet can send a PODC update once per day (with the collateral amount staked out of the external purse).

**NOTE** : The BBP-coin-age per RAC is actually expressed in Coin Age.  Meaning:  coins are re-used each day.  (Coins that are spent in a collateral Tx lose their coin age each day they are spent).   (But, these coins are sent back to your external purse, and then start to age again immediately).  So, a 20,000 BBP coin*age requirement means you need about 20,000 bbp~ in the external wallet continually to maintain rac rewards.

To give everyone an easy idea of exactly what the required coin age would be per exponent level, here is a chart:
The very left column is the exponent, and then we have each hypothetical RAC level).  The value after the equals sign is the coin-age required for that rac level (for that exponent level).

Exp: 1.3      500=3225.98 1000=7943    1300=11171.88 2100=20839.39 2900=31704.24 3700=43517.33 4500=56127.57 5300=69431.83 6100=83354.45 6900=97837.16 7700=112833.47 8500=128305.3 9300=144220.78 10100=160552.76 10900=177,277.84     21000=415,800     42000=1,023,821     80000=2,366,012

Exp: 1.43      500=7236.48 1300=28375.2 2100=56334.39 2900=89377.69 3700=126627.63 4500=167530.5 5300=211696.9 6100=258834.2 6900=308712.49 7700=361145.11 8500=415976.76 9300=473075.67 10100=532328.31 10900=593635.54

Exp: 1.56      500=16232.79 1300=72069.52 2100=152286.74 2900=251965.38 3700=368463.68 4500=500047.8 5300=645461.52 6100=803738.08 6900=974102.33 7700=1155914.02 8500=1348632.2 9300=1551791.61 10100=1764986.32 10900=1987857.9

Exp: 1.69      500=36413.24 1300=183047.7 2100=411671.32 2900=710317.67 3700=1072163.24 4500=1492550.89 5300=1968005.1 6100=2495786.44 6900=3073653.9 7700=3699723.99 8500=4372380.86 9300=5090215.66 10100=5851983.89 10900=6656574.26

Exp: 1.82      500=81681.82 1300=464918.58 2100=1112856.37 2900=2002462.34 3700=3119802.76 4500=4454990.43 5300=6000425.98 6100=7749974.97 6900=9698517.31 7700=11841674.52 8500=14175632.47 9300=16697019.96 10100=19402822.03 10900=22290316.05

Exp: 1.95      500=183227.86 1300=1180835.87 2100=3008344.89 2900=5645157.92 3700=9078066.55 4500=13297328.62 5300=18295233.04 6100=24065405.19 6900=30602416.87 7700=37901545.03 8500=45958612.12 9300=54769874.99 10100=64331944.54 10900=74641725.59


So for example, if you vote for a 1.69 exponent, this means a researcher will need 183,047 in coin-age to be rewarded for 1300 RAC.
A researcher will need 6,656,574 in daily coin-age to be rewarded for 10,900 rac. 

NOTE: If a user does not have enough, we reward the capped amount: for example if they have 36413 in coin age, the exponent is 1.69, their rac is 1500, they will receive a reward based on 500 RAC for that day (IE the capped RAC for their coin-age level).




« Last Edit: October 29, 2019, 06:18:25 am by Rob Andrews »


  • talisman
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Re: BBP per RAC requirement for PODC2.0?
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2019, 03:09:22 pm »
Do you think we could use an exponential function (i.e., not a static coefficient) in the calculation of the requirement?

Small crunchers would then have to stake very little for their RAC, while farmers would have to undertake serious investment.


  • Rob Andrews
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Re: BBP per RAC requirement for PODC2.0?
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2019, 03:23:40 pm »
Do you think we could use an exponential function (i.e., not a static coefficient) in the calculation of the requirement?

Small crunchers would then have to stake very little for their RAC, while farmers would have to undertake serious investment.

Thats a brilliant idea; I like it, because that is mostly what all of us are trying to achieve here - more distinct users in biblepay and less botnets :).
EDIT: Im going to modify the poll based on using an exponent.



« Last Edit: October 28, 2019, 03:43:06 pm by Rob Andrews »


  • capo
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Re: BBP per RAC requirement for PODC2.0?
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2019, 04:55:07 pm »
maybe it is great idea, but exponent 1.5+ is crazy...
better computer can easily have 15000 rac. single computer (or 2-3 avg home computers together)
exp 1.3 - 268k
exp 1.43 - 937k
exp 1.56 - 3.2m
exp 1.69 - 11.4m
exp 1.82 - 39.9m
exp 1.95 - 139.1m

who will stack 10+m for single computer?
1.3 - 1.43 looks good, but if there will be 2 computers and 30k rac?
exp 1.3 - 661k
exp  1.43 - 2.5m
exp 1.56 - 9.6m
exp 1.69 - 36.8m
exp 1.82 - 140.7m
exp 1.95 - 537.5m

i think we should be somewhere 100k rac = 10m stake so 1.4 exp


  • capo
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Re: BBP per RAC requirement for PODC2.0?
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2019, 05:03:24 pm »
another thing
if it will goes up too quickly, then it will be better to create new account than buying coins for stacking
adding new computer should be 15-20% more costly than previous one, but not 3-4x more


  • Rob Andrews
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Re: BBP per RAC requirement for PODC2.0?
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2019, 06:17:40 am »
another thing
if it will goes up too quickly, then it will be better to create new account than buying coins for stacking
adding new computer should be 15-20% more costly than previous one, but not 3-4x more
Seems like people are voting for 1.3:  I added a few more bonus outputs.  It doesn't look too bad for 3 machines @ 1.3, but - as a person approaches 5 - it gets exceedingly expensive, this seems to be pretty good to impede botnets.


  • sunk818
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Re: BBP per RAC requirement for PODC2.0?
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2019, 08:43:19 am »
Do you think we could use an exponential function (i.e., not a static coefficient) in the calculation of the requirement?

Small crunchers would then have to stake very little for their RAC, while farmers would have to undertake serious investment.


If you're going to make PoDC the main GSC contract, I would consider not starting the exponential stake until after you go past a certain RAC like 5k RAC. So, from 1 RAC to 5,000 RAC no stake is required. Why do this? If you create zero barrier to entry, you will get more BBP members. That's also where zero (0) fee registration comes in. You should be able to participate in PoDC 2.0 with 0 BBP in your wallet.


Otherwise, you will need to do airdrop or faucet like last time to get people to BBP. That created a lot of support work and we're just repeating the same scenarios from PoDC 1.0 all over again. Let's learn from the previous pain points.


  • capo
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Re: BBP per RAC requirement for PODC2.0?
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2019, 11:29:20 am »
yes, but keep in mind that botnet probably will be below 5000rac /computer... so it will be supercool for him then


  • talisman
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Re: BBP per RAC requirement for PODC2.0?
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2019, 12:08:16 pm »
yes, but keep in mind that botnet probably will be below 5000rac /computer... so it will be supercool for him then

+1

A typical user with a 4C/8T processor that does other things on his pc and shuts it down for the night will definitely be under 5000 RAC


  • sunk818
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Re: BBP per RAC requirement for PODC2.0?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2019, 12:39:39 am »
yes, but keep in mind that botnet probably will be below 5000rac /computer... so it will be supercool for him then


I wonder if a botnet would bother to create unique cpid for each computer? It could be something lower like 1000 RAC but if you require BBP to stake right away, this makes it harder for people to join.