Bible Pay

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  • Rob Andrews
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FUBT Exchange
« on: August 15, 2019, 06:15:22 pm »
** Deal to List BiblePay with FUBT Exchange - Hong Kong **



I've been in contact with Mr. Yue and Nick Lee from FUBT for one year about potentially listing BiblePay.

A year ago the price quote was too high (IE over 5 bitcoins).

Over the last few months, Mr. Yue had quoted me 3 BTC to list, and I told him we would continue to evaluate their platform as our next exchange and continue to save up funds for our next exchange.

Over the last week, I started talking to Nick.  Nick explained that out of the 3 BTC fee, FUBT will spend a certain amount of money on promoting a new coin (IE they reach out to 50 media companies, and blast a summary of the coin, and promote it for a certain number of days in Asia).  Nick estimates the PR to be worth around $5000~ (or up to 1btc depending on its reception level).

Recently, our coin has been reviewed by FUBT's coin quality assessment group and they consider us to be an "A" grade coin (similar to SouthXChanges ranking system).  They again approached us and re-quoted us a listing for 6btc.  I explained it is out of the ballpark.

Recently, Nick explained to me he can only guarantee the 3 btc fee for a short period of time and we may lose our discount status if we don't try to make an offer soon.

I agreed to take a look at FUBT this month and attempt to create a deal that may possibly work with BiblePay.

FUBT does approx $500 mil per day total volume according to coinmarketcap and coingecko, (not the gecko normalized volume).  From looking at a comparison between Tokok, FUBT, Bittrex and SouthXChange, FUBT appears to be about 50* bigger than southxchange.  Nick explained to me they have 2 million registered traders at FUBT. 

https://www.coingecko.com/en/exchanges/fubt
https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/fubt/

Estimating the size of this investment, 3btc ($35,000), I estimate that we would see a potential increase of $5 - $10,000 per day in trading volume (based on similar coins to BiblePay) and this would potentially lead to a market cap increase in BiblePay, *potentially* paying off the investment within a short duration.  (Nick tends to think we would be received well in Asia and coins like us trade more than $20K per day, but this is speculative.)

I feel this move into Asia is something BiblePay currently needs, as we trade almost exclusively in the US.  I think the 2 mil additional accounts complement our needs to a high degree.

In light of this, if the sanctuaries agree, I am offering to help this listing along with the following offer:

If this proposal is voted in and the Security Check passes (this is an internal freshdesk ticket with FUBT senior management to verify the exchange proposal is signed and agreed upon by BiblePay and FUBT):
Rob sends FUBT 3 btc from his personal account (lending BBP 3 btc)
Rob enters a 12 part proposal to recoup .25btc per month until the 3 btc is paid back

FUBT Provides:

- Listing BTC/BBP trading Pair
- 1BTC worth of promotion (Media blitz with 50 media outlets, 1-2* depending on market appreciation)
- At least 4 mandatory upgrades per year with no fees (I verified this with Nick)
- The go live would be towards the end of September 2019 and media blitz around mid September

** If anyone has anything negative to report about FUBT please report it now **



Proposal Payment dispursement breakdown:

Payment 1 of 12:
BTC @ 10567 : .25BTC * 10567 / .000724 = 3,647,790 BBP

(Note, as each month occurs I will update the remaining payments until we hit 3 btc)


« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 06:49:56 pm by Rob Andrews »


  • Rob Andrews
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Re: FUBT Exchange
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2019, 06:49:08 pm »
I'm doing some testing to see if I feel warm and fuzzy about this proposal.

So far I've created an account with FUBT, and found US customers need to have a KYC to trade.
However, after asking Nick about this, he explained due to the "94" regulation(s) in China, KYC is required for every exchange going forward.

EDIT:

Here are the instructions that US users need to go through to trade on FUBT.
First its critical you choose USA as the Country when you join.
If your Account Settings say China, you can still send a KYC by populating your Drivers License # and then contacting Support to fix the Country.

Instructions to link KYC into your FUBT Account:
http://pool.biblepay.org/SAN/Integration/FUBTKYC.pdf





« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 02:57:23 pm by Rob Andrews »


  • jaapgvk
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Re: FUBT Exchange
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2019, 11:52:05 am »
I'm having some reservations. I like the promotion-deal and the fact that it's non-English. Do they have a Chinese equivalent of Twitter or something where you can see interaction between them and the persons that use the platform?

Most of our volume is on southXchange. Coinexchange.io volume is very low, although it's ranked higher on coingecko than FUBT, so I don't know if adding another exchange will increase volume perse. But as I said, it's a non-English exchange, so it might help.

My reservations are mostly because it's hard for me to determine if they are actually as high-volume as they claim.


  • Rob Andrews
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Re: FUBT Exchange
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2019, 12:25:05 pm »
I'm having some reservations. I like the promotion-deal and the fact that it's non-English. Do they have a Chinese equivalent of Twitter or something where you can see interaction between them and the persons that use the platform?

Most of our volume is on southXchange. Coinexchange.io volume is very low, although it's ranked higher on coingecko than FUBT, so I don't know if adding another exchange will increase volume perse. But as I said, it's a non-English exchange, so it might help.

My reservations are mostly because it's hard for me to determine if they are actually as high-volume as they claim.


Thanks Jaap.

I'll add a few more points and see if they resonate with others as we near the time where we need to decide what we vote on.

I feel the promotional component of the deal "may" be valuable (I'm just a little more skeptical of PR now that we have been in business for 2+ years and our airdrop campaigns were pretty weak, and our efforts to bring people through ads were kind of weak, and dont get me wrong, Im very happy we did everything we did) just saying I feel the 1 bitcoin component of the deal is probably going to be lateral (if that).  IE maybe we see 100 new users over 90 days. 

The biggest pro I feel comes from Nick is his point about the 2 million registered Chinese traders.  Some of them are whales.  They buy/sell 10 million in BTC per day.  What I want to see is a few of those whales start interacting with BBP.  Impho, I think this is where the value is in the plan (penetrating the Asian crypto trading community).

I asked Nick candidly, do they think they will be dedicated and stay in this business.  Nick said, they are one of the few Chinese exchanges who conformed to the "94 regulation".  This is something where KYCs are required and they passed the strict audits of the Chinese Govt (they are allowed to operate in China and I believe also in Hong Kong).  He said they are in for the long run and indeed plan to improve the exchange and grow.  He wants to aim for being on par with Binance - although I guess any exchange will shoot for that.

EDIT:  I just emailed Nick to see if we can get insight on volume.
One thing that makes me nervous is the coingecko declining volume I see as of today compared to last week.


On the twitter:  I think if you click on CoinGecko, see if the twitter link comes up there.


We need to check this volume out in depth.

Also, anythink on Tokok anyone?


« Last Edit: August 25, 2019, 02:06:18 pm by Rob Andrews »


  • SVK Noko
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Re: FUBT Exchange
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2019, 12:06:35 am »
I see we have a quite new topic in forum.biblepay.org regarding new exchange listing. We have two choices, first one FUBT exchange and second one TOKOK exchange. I tried to make an account and look at them. I was a little bit dissapointed when I tried to make an account on FUBT exchange. Directly in register form I need to put in confirmation code sent via short message or via email. Unfortunatelly short message even email confirmation have not worked in my case. I used Slovak phone number and @gmail.com email. I haven't receive anything. I tried it from France IP, email confirmation worked but I receive email in Chinese. Translated via google translator. After registration I tried to log in, again I needed to confirm log in by code but I havent receive anything. Ok I closed this issue with statement that FUBT is not very user friendly in Europe. Ill try it maybe later ones again.
On the other hand I had no problem with TOKOK exchange, fast registration, everything worked just fine. Exchange platform looks fast enough even in Europe and looks user friendly.

Regarding coingecko parameters both of them are looking very good on the first look. On the second look both of the exchanges has much more lower daily Normalized Volume as Daily Volume. In my opinion this means they have many trading robots and their volumes are penalised and Normalized volume decreased. This is not good sign. So real volume we can say FUBT about 400k daily and TOKOK 1mil daily normalized volume. In comparisn with Southxchange has max 100k daily.
So when I compared daily volumes TOKOK looks better and according to information from Rob's post on forum.biblepay.org listing fee is cheaper. It means 2 BTC for Exchange with 1mil daily volume.

When you take a look on trading statistics it looks than biggest percentage of trades are in trading pairs with USDT. What do you think about that? I dont know if we have possibility maybe list BBP/USDT trading pair. It looks this should be good move?

According to my first comparism I will vote for TOKOK exchange.


  • SVK Noko
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Re: FUBT Exchange
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2019, 12:22:59 am »
I see we have a quite new topic in forum.biblepay.org regarding new exchange listing. We have two choices, first one FUBT exchange and second one TOKOK exchange. I tried to make an account and look at them. I was a little bit dissapointed when I tried to make an account on FUBT exchange. Directly in register form I need to put in confirmation code sent via short message or via email. Unfortunatelly short message even email confirmation have not worked in my case. I used Slovak phone number and @gmail.com email. I haven't receive anything. I tried it from France IP, email confirmation worked but I receive email in Chinese. Translated via google translator. After registration I tried to log in, again I needed to confirm log in by code but I havent receive anything. Ok I closed this issue with statement that FUBT is not very user friendly in Europe. Ill try it maybe later ones again.
On the other hand I had no problem with TOKOK exchange, fast registration, everything worked just fine. Exchange platform looks fast enough even in Europe and looks user friendly.

Regarding coingecko parameters both of them are looking very good on the first look. On the second look both of the exchanges has much more lower daily Normalized Volume as Daily Volume. In my opinion this means they have many trading robots and their volumes are penalised and Normalized volume decreased. This is not good sign. So real volume we can say FUBT about 400k daily and TOKOK 2mil daily normalized volume. In comparisn with Southxchange has max 100k daily.
So when I compared daily volumes TOKOK looks better and according to information from Rob's post on forum.biblepay.org listing fee is cheaper. It means 2 BTC for Exchange with 2mil daily volume.

When you take a look on trading statistics it looks than biggest percentage of trades are in trading pairs with USDT. What do you think about that? I dont know if we have possibility maybe list BBP/USDT trading pair. It looks this should be good move?

According to my first comparism I will vote for TOKOK exchange.


  • Rob Andrews
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Re: FUBT Exchange
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2019, 08:23:43 am »
I see we have a quite new topic in forum.biblepay.org regarding new exchange listing. We have two choices, first one FUBT exchange and second one TOKOK exchange. I tried to make an account and look at them. I was a little bit dissapointed when I tried to make an account on FUBT exchange. Directly in register form I need to put in confirmation code sent via short message or via email. Unfortunatelly short message even email confirmation have not worked in my case. I used Slovak phone number and @gmail.com email. I haven't receive anything. I tried it from France IP, email confirmation worked but I receive email in Chinese. Translated via google translator. After registration I tried to log in, again I needed to confirm log in by code but I havent receive anything. Ok I closed this issue with statement that FUBT is not very user friendly in Europe. Ill try it maybe later ones again.
On the other hand I had no problem with TOKOK exchange, fast registration, everything worked just fine. Exchange platform looks fast enough even in Europe and looks user friendly.

Regarding coingecko parameters both of them are looking very good on the first look. On the second look both of the exchanges has much more lower daily Normalized Volume as Daily Volume. In my opinion this means they have many trading robots and their volumes are penalised and Normalized volume decreased. This is not good sign. So real volume we can say FUBT about 400k daily and TOKOK 1mil daily normalized volume. In comparisn with Southxchange has max 100k daily.
So when I compared daily volumes TOKOK looks better and according to information from Rob's post on forum.biblepay.org listing fee is cheaper. It means 2 BTC for Exchange with 1mil daily volume.

When you take a look on trading statistics it looks than biggest percentage of trades are in trading pairs with USDT. What do you think about that? I dont know if we have possibility maybe list BBP/USDT trading pair. It looks this should be good move?

According to my first comparism I will vote for TOKOK exchange.


I too saw the volume seem to decline on Gecko.  What we really dont know, IE we are guessing at, is what flags CoinGeckos normalized volume algorithm to decrease the 400 million trading volume down to 1 mil for example.  I wish I knew. 

I am starting to agree with your perspective on Tokok.  For one we cant really afford much.  If we forgo the PR we may end up with more volume at Tokok.  We have to be careful because this exchange decision will keep us out of new exchanges for a year if we are wrong.  If we are right, it will pay for itself in a short period of time.

Im going to try to go to another person at FUBT and demand answers now.

Also, we should analyze volume during the week and see if the reduction in volume was due to the weekend.  What Im pointing out is I remember gecko showing 400MM daily gross vol and 1 mil net for a few days then it appeared to drop drastically down below 200MM gross and only 200K net for the last few days - almost like FUBT is going *out of business*.

We certainly don't need that problem after all we've been through, we need a winner.

- Regarding the UI comparison between the two:  I agree with you - even in the US.  I selected English on both platforms.  The main problem I had with FUBT is I had to fill the KYC out (and the system never did change from China for the country even though I selected US- their customer service said I need to manually contact them to fix it). 

In Tokok, I had no problem reading the pages as a US citizen, OR trading as a us citizen without a KYC (since they are in the virgin islands).  (I traded GIN successfully on TOKOK).

I asked Tokok, is this the BEST deal you can give us - they said Yes, 2btc is the very minimum (last night).   

« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 08:27:00 am by Rob Andrews »


  • SVK Noko
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Re: FUBT Exchange
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2019, 08:53:56 am »

I too saw the volume seem to decline on Gecko.  What we really dont know, IE we are guessing at, is what flags CoinGeckos normalized volume algorithm to decrease the 400 million trading volume down to 1 mil for example.  I wish I knew. 

I am starting to agree with your perspective on Tokok.  For one we cant really afford much.  If we forgo the PR we may end up with more volume at Tokok.  We have to be careful because this exchange decision will keep us out of new exchanges for a year if we are wrong.  If we are right, it will pay for itself in a short period of time.

Im going to try to go to another person at FUBT and demand answers now.

Also, we should analyze volume during the week and see if the reduction in volume was due to the weekend.  What Im pointing out is I remember gecko showing 400MM daily gross vol and 1 mil net for a few days then it appeared to drop drastically down below 200MM gross and only 200K net for the last few days - almost like FUBT is going *out of business*.

We certainly don't need that problem after all we've been through, we need a winner.

- Regarding the UI comparison between the two:  I agree with you - even in the US.  I selected English on both platforms.  The main problem I had with FUBT is I had to fill the KYC out (and the system never did change from China for the country even though I selected US- their customer service said I need to manually contact them to fix it). 

In Tokok, I had no problem reading the pages as a US citizen, OR trading as a us citizen without a KYC (since they are in the virgin islands).  (I traded GIN successfully on TOKOK).

I asked Tokok, is this the BEST deal you can give us - they said Yes, 2btc is the very minimum (last night).   

Coingecko takes in consideration ration between 24hours volume and number of site visits (they take it from SimilarWeb). They count this ration for 10 bitwise exchanges (Binance, Bitfinex, Kraken, Bitstamp, Coinbase, Bitflyer, Gemini, itBit, Bittrex, Poloniex) from this they make median and median using as a benchmark. Based on this benchmark they normalize volumes down or up for rest exchanges (in detail here https://blog.coingecko.com/trust-score/ ). I see this as a good weapon against fake volumes. From our two exchanges TOKOK is going to look much more better choice.


  • Rob Andrews
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Re: FUBT Exchange
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2019, 09:00:26 am »
Coingecko takes in consideration ration between 24hours volume and number of site visits (they take it from SimilarWeb). They count this ration for 10 bitwise exchanges (Binance, Bitfinex, Kraken, Bitstamp, Coinbase, Bitflyer, Gemini, itBit, Bittrex, Poloniex) from this they make median and median using as a benchmark. Based on this benchmark they normalize volumes down or up for rest exchanges (in detail here https://blog.coingecko.com/trust-score/ ). I see this as a good weapon against fake volumes. From our two exchanges TOKOK is going to look much more better choice.

Ok, thats a much better explanation for their normalizing system than I thought they were doing (I thought they were monitoring some type of trading filters and guessing if it was bot activity :), ok good to know.

Yes, Tokok looks a lot better again, now we need to know is there anything negative about Tokok.

1 mil is not shabby, and it might be bigger if the similarweb is too strict on the whale activity at tokok. (Im remaining positive that they are not falsifying all the volume).




  • Rob Andrews
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Re: FUBT Exchange
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2019, 11:34:27 am »
I have contacted Nick at FUBT and thanked him for his time he spent with us and spent evaluating BBP, and I mentioned that after evaluating this we have decided to wait and pass on this opportunity for now.

At this time, I am withdrawing my offer to fund this opportunity with my personal funds.