Bible Pay

Poll

Should we mint 3.5BTC for mass sale of BBP for our Sanctuary Go Live as a fundraiser for a potential listing on potential exchanges?

Yes, make a block around Christmas pay out 3.5BTC to an escrow account in BBP
21 (80.8%)
No, just wait until we have a PR budget in place, and let the sanctuaries vote on issues like this
4 (15.4%)
Abstain, (Dont Wish to Participate in this Vote)
1 (3.8%)

Total Members Voted: 26

Voting closed: December 16, 2017, 01:27:35 pm

Read 17938 times

  • Rob Andrews
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Two of the top 6 exchanges have agreed to list BiblePay for a total fee of 3.3BTC in order to help us achieve our goal of sponsoring more orphans.


Should we mint a block for this fee during our mandatory release at Christmas?

Or, should we wait until sanctuaries are up and running and consider making this a budget item in our future PR budget and vote on this like a normal item next year?

(The risk is-- maybe BTC will be more expensive by then, or the Exchange May withdraw the offer).

So, this is one opportunity that looks like we may want to jump on, but I leave this up to the community.


« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 04:27:13 pm by admin »


  • klondike
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Re: Should we mint 2BTC for an exchange listing on CoinExchange.IO ?
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2017, 02:12:31 pm »
best way will be wait for MASTERNODEs and used BTCs from PR budgets ... enough to see on others coins which was rlsed on best exchanges/markets after rlsed masternodes.

there was a huge demand for masternodes/POW coins when working together POW/MN

but its my opinion  ;)


  • tiras
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Re: Should we mint 2BTC for an exchange listing on CoinExchange.IO ?
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2017, 05:36:08 pm »
best way will be wait for MASTERNODEs and used BTCs from PR budgets ... enough to see on others coins which was rlsed on best exchanges/markets after rlsed masternodes.

there was a huge demand for masternodes/POW coins when working together POW/MN

but its my opinion  ;)

agree. better slowly but surely


  • aikida3k
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If we do 800,000 daily effusion rate starting in 2018, for the 2.5% PR budget, at 20 satoshi that implies 800,000*.025*.00000020=.004 BTC per day.   3.3 BTC/ .004 BTC per day at 20 satoshi implies 825 days to pay for listing through the PR budget.  If we go ahead and do the mint from the total amount of coins that will ever be minted, there is a better chance we will appreciate over 20 satoshi, imo.  If we want to be listed on 2 of the top 10 bitcoin exchanges, then we should go ahead and do the mint.


  • jaapgvk
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I can see both sides of the argument. I'm all for a slow and steady decentralised growth that is voted for by the masternodes, but I also see the advantage of getting listed on two major exchanges pretty early on and getting more exposure (especially since the masternodes will be launched at approximately the same time as we will probably be listed on these exchanges)

I think the f8000 update is - as far as I can see - the last time we get an opportunity to implement a special minted block for a special cause.

I think aikida3k's calculation is something to consider. Because after f8000 it might take a long time to gather the funds to get us listed on a major exchange.

Of course, once the value of BBP increases, the available budget to do things that benefit the community and the orphans will grow. But to be able to grow, we need to get more exposure.

I, for one, vote for the block. And I don't think it will crash the market, because people will be wanting to get a masternode (may it be for monetary goals or humanitarian goals). I think this is an honest coin, with an honest dev, and an honest heart, and I'm proud to be part of this community.



I already voted yes but are you allowed to say if they are on the top 6 -or even top 30- of that list ?

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#markets
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 09:22:00 pm by Alex »


  • Rob Andrews
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I can see both sides of the argument. I'm all for a slow and steady decentralised growth that is voted for by the masternodes, but I also see the advantage of getting listed on two major exchanges pretty early on and getting more exposure (especially since the masternodes will be launched at approximately the same time as we will probably be listed on these exchanges)

I think the f8000 update is - as far as I can see - the last time we get an opportunity to implement a special minted block for a special cause.

I think aikida3k's calculation is something to consider. Because after f8000 it might take a long time to gather the funds to get us listed on a major exchange.

Of course, once the value of BBP increases, the available budget to do things that benefit the community and the orphans will grow. But to be able to grow, we need to get more exposure.

I, for one, vote for the block. And I don't think it will crash the market, because people will be wanting to get a masternode (may it be for monetary goals or humanitarian goals). I think this is an honest coin, with an honest dev, and an honest heart, and I'm proud to be part of this community.

Yeah, I have a heart for slow and steady too, but what really convinced me to vote yes is the tear bitcoin has been on.
In this case I feel like we should take hit, dump the bbp and crash the market for one day, jump on the exchanges and then lose the "BTC RISK", as what if bitcoin doubles again over the next 6 months?  I was thinking that would kill our future orphan benefits (To remove so much later for these two deals at double the price).

This is also a no brainer in the sense that these two exchanges pull more volume in per day than the whole deal itself in no time - trust me we will have more traffic from this deal than it costs us, as I think the ROI on this is < 30 days :).



  • Rob Andrews
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I already voted yes but are you allowed to say if they are on the top 6 -or even top 30- of that list ?

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#markets

Yeah, one is big time, and one is pretty big time.

They are both each within the absolute top 6 exchanges by volume (not 30).

They agreed on a deal for 1.65btc each (roughly) as I think the upper management knows each other, somehow, Ill know more as we start funding.

Oh btw, there is a maintenance fee per year with each exchange, but we can talk about that later.  Its something like .5 BTC per year.






Oh that's really good news then! I'm sure the masternode holders wouldn't be opposed to that annual fee anyway!


  • ferohers
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Voted yes because c-cex goes offline every 15 mins.


  • jmmc
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yes, pay to list
don't dump the BPP market
organize BTC donation
if we can collect 3.3BTC, I'll contribute to it up-to 0.1 BTC
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 01:20:11 pm by jmmc »


So are you saying to mint a special block that contains roughly (at 20 sat/BBP) 16.5M BBP?

I think the opportunity is great to be on a bigger exchange, but I worry about two issues.  One, setting a precedence where when the need is there, coins can materialize without regard to the emission schedule.  In this case, it would be very beneficial to the coin, but what about next time?  If we show that we can do this without regard to the schedule, what would stop the MN from voting to do this again for a less worthy use?  Also, minting such a huge stake in BBP would have a noticeable effect on total supply.

Two, I'm not so confident that 3.3BTC will be so high in the spring (although I'm not an expert on BTC price movement). 

As another minor point, wouldn't it be better to allow MN to "shake out the bugs" more in the live environment before going to new exchanges?  I see the testing has been going quite well in testnet, but there will surely be some new issues pop up after they go live.


  • jmmc
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don't mine extra blocks
keep BPP emission unchanged
otherwise it would be very bad precedent
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 01:21:18 pm by jmmc »


If we do 800,000 daily effusion rate starting in 2018, for the 2.5% PR budget, at 20 satoshi that implies 800,000*.025*.00000020=.004 BTC per day.   3.3 BTC/ .004 BTC per day at 20 satoshi implies 825 days to pay for listing through the PR budget.  If we go ahead and do the mint from the total amount of coins that will ever be minted, there is a better chance we will appreciate over 20 satoshi, imo.  If we want to be listed on 2 of the top 10 bitcoin exchanges, then we should go ahead and do the mint.

First off, I'm not entirely sure if the 2.5% PR Budget has been finalized or not.  It could very well be there is a 10% generic expense budget. The stated 2018 emissions are roughly 800M, so 2.5% of that, in round numbers is 20M BBP, which at 20 satoshi (.000 000 20) means a 2.5% PR budget would end up with 4.08 BTC in 2018, far less than the 825 days quoted above.

Two: Minting and selling 16.5M BBP would at this moment, exceed the entire buy orders on C-Cex and destroy the market.  Right now there are only .7 BTC worth of buy orders on C-Cex (for a total of 8.6M BBP).  So the only way to realistically make that work is by either selling the special minted block directly to someone who would be essentially overpaying by 300%.  In that case we'd be just as well off telling that individual to crash the market and donate the BTC to get us listed.  The people that would benefit the most from that would be those putting in buy orders at 1 satoshi to get a huge quantity of coins for cheap with the hopes that the listing on the bigger exchanges would boost the coin back in the moderate term.

Really, doing it slowly is the only real option without risking destroying the market and potentially shaking user confidence unless enough people want to donate to do it right away.

Again, getting listed on a big exchange would almost certainly be great for the coin, but minting a special block won't actually get the job done.


  • Rob Andrews
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First off, I'm not entirely sure if the 2.5% PR Budget has been finalized or not.  It could very well be there is a 10% generic expense budget. The stated 2018 emissions are roughly 800M, so 2.5% of that, in round numbers is 20M BBP, which at 20 satoshi (.000 000 20) means a 2.5% PR budget would end up with 4.08 BTC in 2018, far less than the 825 days quoted above.

Two: Minting and selling 16.5M BBP would at this moment, exceed the entire buy orders on C-Cex and destroy the market.  Right now there are only .7 BTC worth of buy orders on C-Cex (for a total of 8.6M BBP).  So the only way to realistically make that work is by either selling the special minted block directly to someone who would be essentially overpaying by 300%.  In that case we'd be just as well off telling that individual to crash the market and donate the BTC to get us listed.  The people that would benefit the most from that would be those putting in buy orders at 1 satoshi to get a huge quantity of coins for cheap with the hopes that the listing on the bigger exchanges would boost the coin back in the moderate term.

Really, doing it slowly is the only real option without risking destroying the market and potentially shaking user confidence unless enough people want to donate to do it right away.

Again, getting listed on a big exchange would almost certainly be great for the coin, but minting a special block won't actually get the job done.


Yes, it means minting a special block emitting a certain number of coins, approx 25MM coins for the entire deal.

"Really, doing it slowly is the only real option without risking destroying the market and potentially shaking user confidence unless enough people want to donate to do it right away."

-- I would not have made this poll if I thought it would damage biblepay, or not be possible to pull off.  Its entirely possible if I back the deal.

-- Regarding setting a bad precedent, I have weighed it and this is the only time in this coins history this can actually happen.  And the benefits far, far, outweigh the risks.  This is a measured risk.   I agree, once we have sanctuaries, we will never again have an opportunity to mint a custom block.  In addition, this particular mandatory upgrade is really the only time we can squeeze this deal in.

I based the above figure on what I crashed the market down to pull a certain number of BTC out to pay for the downpayment to "potentially list us".  I am agreeing to take the risk on the rest of the deal.