Bible Pay

Poll

Should we mint 3.5BTC for mass sale of BBP for our Sanctuary Go Live as a fundraiser for a potential listing on potential exchanges?

Yes, make a block around Christmas pay out 3.5BTC to an escrow account in BBP
21 (80.8%)
No, just wait until we have a PR budget in place, and let the sanctuaries vote on issues like this
4 (15.4%)
Abstain, (Dont Wish to Participate in this Vote)
1 (3.8%)

Total Members Voted: 25

Voting closed: December 16, 2017, 01:27:35 pm

Read 15132 times

I never mean any of my posts to be taken as criticism unless I call out a particular person and say "X you are flat out wrong"

I've voiced my concerns, and I still feel they are valid.  But I still ardently support this coin.  While it would be fantastic to be listed on somewhere more robust than C-Cex, I personally don't feel it is feasible without risking significant damage to user confidence and price.

I grasp that technically the MN update is the last significant opportunity to do that and unfortunately because of that, the MN community governance cannot make the decision.  Take the poll as a recommendation, but until the MN are live, you are the coin, we trust we and you should do what is best in your opinion.


  • togoshigekata
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Woah this thread has been viewed 1,981 times!, but only 20 votes, strange

The #1 thing in the bitcointalk forums that everyone has been complaining about is that they want BiblePay listed on a bigger exchange.

I think this is a very unique opportunity to get listed on 2 top exchanges for a really cheap price!

I too worry about the precedent this will set and hope we never mint blocks like this again.

Im not too worried about the buy orders on the exchange, IF we promote that this event is happening,
everyone will scramble to place buy orders and will try to out-compete each other for the coins (assuming we advertise that this event is going to happen)

Rob, are you open to giving everyone a few days heads up on when you are going to sell the 16.5 million BBP coins? I think we can get a lot more Bitcoin for the BBP coins if we advertise ahead of time so people can prepare, transfer their Bitcoin to the Exchange and set up their buy orders.



  • Ichthus220
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    • December 11, 2017, 10:09:35 pm
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I feel I understand all positions stated thus far and feel, at this point, that I trust Rob, and all the work he's put in to get the coin this far. Not only that, he's also willing to put his own money on the line for this deal. For these reasons, I voted yes.


  • aikida3k
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First off, I'm not entirely sure if the 2.5% PR Budget has been finalized or not.  It could very well be there is a 10% generic expense budget. The stated 2018 emissions are roughly 800M, so 2.5% of that, in round numbers is 20M BBP, which at 20 satoshi (.000 000 20) means a 2.5% PR budget would end up with 4.08 BTC in 2018, far less than the 825 days quoted above.

Two: Minting and selling 16.5M BBP would at this moment, exceed the entire buy orders on C-Cex and destroy the market.  Right now there are only .7 BTC worth of buy orders on C-Cex (for a total of 8.6M BBP).  So the only way to realistically make that work is by either selling the special minted block directly to someone who would be essentially overpaying by 300%.  In that case we'd be just as well off telling that individual to crash the market and donate the BTC to get us listed.  The people that would benefit the most from that would be those putting in buy orders at 1 satoshi to get a huge quantity of coins for cheap with the hopes that the listing on the bigger exchanges would boost the coin back in the moderate term.

Really, doing it slowly is the only real option without risking destroying the market and potentially shaking user confidence unless enough people want to donate to do it right away.

Again, getting listed on a big exchange would almost certainly be great for the coin, but minting a special block won't actually get the job done.

I went back and checked my numbers.  I based the 800,000 daily effusion rate based on checking the daily effusion rate from memory.  From memory, it seemed to increase about 1,000,000 or so each time I checked it.  So taking that 1,000,000 and taking 80% of that, I arrived at the 800,000 figure.  What I didn't account for, was checking the effusion rate 2x per day.  So looking back from the inception to today, we have approximately 141 days 7/23-12/11 with a total effusion of 279,534,159 which actually works out to an average daily effusion of 1,982,512.  Then I looked back at my notes, from 10/25 to 12/11 is 47 days with a change in coins of 110,161,108 for an average daily effusion of 2,343,853.  If we take the midpoint of block rewards as (20,000+5,000)/2 is 12,500 and with 205 blocks per day, I arrive at an implied daily effusion rate of 2,562,500.  Nevertheless, if we just assume 2,000,000 daily effusion rate and decreasing by approximately  20% we get 1,600,000, which is 2x the rate I had figured in before.  That would cut the time to pay for it in half.  If we do meet the 800M effusion rate in the schedule, that does imply a daily effusion rate of 2,191,780  which is higher than the rate since inception but 93% of the effusion rate since October 25.


To combine the two ideals, what if we suggested a middle ground.

How long do we have to generate the 3.3 BTC?

I'm guessing if Masternodes go well (which they've been tested for several months, I just redeployed one and while it wasn't a perfect install in like 10 minutes, it was certainly doable in an evening) the price will trend up.  So while our numbers are based on the newer average of 20 sat (instead of the lower avg of 13 sat for the previous month or so), I sincerely believe 30 sat will be the short term norm barring an overall collapse in the crypto market or another doubling of BTC in two weeks.  So if we have a month to pay, for instance, then we can bank on some of the PR budget pulling it's own weight vs the minted block.

To that end, have the block reward percentages been finalized for the MN release?

So, depending on how much PR budget will be mined, maybe a donation type sale would be sufficient to meet the need.  Pre-sell however much would be needed for 15-25 Sat, depending on what the markets are looking like, then mint that much and rely on the PR budget to cover the rest?  It'd have less impact than a huge dump on the exchange would.


Was the plan to mint the coins and post them on an exchange or sell them directly to interested parties? Putting that many coins on the exchange would be painful. I'd be interested in buying enough to make another masternode and I'm sure others would be too.


  • Rob A.
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I was told in a strict way, not to talk about it, I dont think I can effectively answer these questions!  It feels painful!

If anyone wants to make a deal on ccex, I can sell some of my coins in blocks around that level, thats all I can say.

Post here if you want me to put in a sell a few points below the market.





Just for clarification purposes; Is the plan to pay the exchanges in BBP from the minted block or in BTC from the sale of these coins?


  • ed12345
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    • November 04, 2017, 11:00:08 am
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If anybody is collecting donations, count me in.  My bitcointalk handle is noob101.  I am not a high income earner (teacher salary), but I am willing to give my 10% in money and 100% in support.  ;D


  • Rob A.
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Alex asked me to clarify a few things as long as not breaking the covenant with our next potential exchanges and upcoming deals for 2018.

So based on the supermajority vote and the pressure I was under to not miss the deadline, I made a deal with my own money and fronted the amount for the deal with a couple anonymous exchanges.  Im not allowed to say how much I spent or who these exchanges are.

So basically what would happen when this vote completes, is we will mint one 25MM bbp block to a BBP address around Dec 31 2017.  In the mean time Im willing to sell my extra BBP on ccex up to the date our next exchange go live, and place orders below market a few points if anyone is trying to invest in masternodes.




Thanks Rob for the clarifications.

I appreciate you were under pressure for that deal and I think it's a big opportunity for BBP.

I'm not sure if it's possible but I would mint the block on the 25th at the same time as the go live for the masternodes and be done with it.

I wouldn't sell any of your BBP below market price now but instead would it be possible to do something like this:

1) "Take orders" (modalities can be discussed later) now from people who want to buy BBP at market price (24 right now) and just fulfil these orders once the block is minted in 2 weeks.

2)  Sell enough bbp from that block to recover what you lost for going through with that deal.

3) Send w/e is left (if any) to the orphan wallet.

Edit: Actually, a better solution could probably be this:

-don't sell any of your bbp now under market price-

1) We mint the 25m BBP block on the 25th.

2) You sell all the 25m BBP on the exchange in a way not to crash the price and take what you need to pay yourself back.
As Togo said, I'm sure people will be ready to buy it all if we announce it (on top of being the 25th so they can run their masternode as soon as they have enough coins)

3) Use the leftover -if any- to sponsor children.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 12:17:11 pm by Alex »


  • jmmc
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If anybody is collecting donations, count me in.  My bitcointalk handle is noob101.  I am not a high income earner (teacher salary), but I am willing to give my 10% in money and 100% in support.  ;D
thanks, so we can have so far 0.33 + 0.1 = 0.43. Someone else wants to join? 2.87 BTC still missing to the needed amount.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 06:25:12 pm by jmmc »


  • Rob A.
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Ok, I think Alexs idea is pretty good and fair.  I think with a slight variation we can KISS and implement a fair strategy.

Heres the plan:

Im going to notify CCEX of our coming mandatory (normally scheduled for Christmas), but with a slight variation.  Im going to ask them to halt trading - ie put us in maintenance mode - as soon as possible (as early as tomorrow). 

While they are working this ticket to halt our trading, Im going to get our mandatory upgrade ready (over the next two days). 

Im going to make the large block hit as early as possible, ie something like two days after I get the block # trading is halted.

Then, we as a community will upgrade with our mandatory and start working on tuning up the masternodes.

Then I notify CCEX to resume trading.

Once we know the exact date CCEX is back online, we will set up a mass sale here on this forum for 25MM biblepay to be sold on ccex.

Ill make it so that we dont sell below the "intrinsic" rate, that means we make it so we sell all 25 MM for at least 3.5BTC. 

If we sell this amount for over 3.5BTC, I will send the excess  BBP into the Orphanage account, and we will keep tabs of how the sale is going until its over.  It might take a few days to complete, but I dont want to drag it on as I want people to get a chance to buy up BBP for masternodes and get this over with, so when we expand our presence then we can moon.





  • togoshigekata
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You have relieved my concerns Rob! Good plan!  8)


  • Rob A.
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You have relieved my concerns Rob! Good plan!  8)

Yeah, Alex gets the award :)

One nice thing about this plan is we have more than one chance to fix any bugs with the sanctuaries.  In the old plan, if anything went wrong on a certain height we were DOA until an emergency patch is issued.  In this plan, as soon as CCEX takes us down we can start preparing for our mandatory and if something fails, I can issue a new one - although, I absolutely do not want anything to go wrong, I want to do this once, LOL...

I notified CCEX to put us in maintenance, but it could take a while.

Im working on our mandatory upgrade now.