Bible Pay

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  • Rob Andrews
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Re: Testnet - Test Proof of Giving
« Reply #225 on: January 02, 2019, 08:43:39 am »




where is problem?

So the problem is half bug half understanding.

Take a look at your prior screenshots, and see how you have no coins old enough to tithe?  (IE tithability = NO) in the one shot, and the amount?  Thats the "actual problem".

But I see when you tried to send 200, it created a txid of 00000000000000000000000, thats a bug.

Will fix today.

Thanks.



  • Rob Andrews
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Re: Testnet - Test Proof of Giving
« Reply #226 on: January 02, 2019, 08:53:24 am »
Hey All,

So from a very high level, POG seems to be "relatively good", but I have an uneasy feeling about one issue. 
When we removed the training wheels, I noticed we always had a smaller chain with less work competing with the main chain - IE we were more apt to form a fork.  We had about one fork per day, yet we recovered.   I don't think this is normal.

In light of this, I will need to make some changes to POG - most likely changes that deal with shortening the POG duration down from 205 blocks to 16.  I'm thinking what we might do is simplify POG in a way where the wallet takes a look at the last 16 blocks to determine POG difficulty (in contrast to 205), and inside those 16 blocks, it creates a map of who is in the pool (IE who legally tithed), and we pay every pool participant in the next block.

This should give the POG participant the benefit of receiving less volatile reward amounts per tithe (IE not waiting for a payment tier to occur).

The main benefit of this for the core wallet is it will theoretically be more efficient (IE less lookback calculations) and also less prone to fork risk (as during every block connect, the wallet looks at its prior 16 block indexes).

So in light of this please pause testing and Ill prioritize this to the highest level and be back asap with a new version.



  • sunk818
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Re: Testnet - Test Proof of Giving
« Reply #227 on: January 02, 2019, 11:21:15 am »
The main benefit of this for the core wallet is it will theoretically be more efficient (IE less lookback calculations) and also less prone to fork risk (as during every block connect, the wallet looks at its prior 16 block indexes).

So, no more "tranches"? More payments but smaller amounts? How much we tithe / pool tithe is the percentage we get back? Sort of like my rac / team rac?


  • Rob Andrews
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Re: Testnet - Test Proof of Giving
« Reply #228 on: January 02, 2019, 02:44:20 pm »
So, no more "tranches"? More payments but smaller amounts? How much we tithe / pool tithe is the percentage we get back? Sort of like my rac / team rac?

Ironically, I found a thing with the "tiers" that I dont think anyone likes (so this is sort of an accidental blessing that cures this problem).  If you get unlucky and leave your miner tithing in the old way, you can continually get placed in a busy tier (IE one with high tithes) and actually lose money the old way.

In the new way there are no more tiers- and everyone gets paid every block.  This is a little more spammy, in that we will probably have 1000 recipients per block in prod (when we grow bigger), but we can fix that later as it is not a problem for our wallet to handle this currently.

So now, the ROI will be much more accurate.  If you tithe continually, you will be assured a profit (and not a crapshoot).

We will test this out in a little bit; but from the design, you should always make at least 50% profit.

I think the faster turnover of diff (every 16 blocks) will be a very positive thing also as it will make the system much more active. 



Re: Testnet - Test Proof of Giving
« Reply #229 on: January 02, 2019, 04:53:10 pm »
Would treating PoG like RAC be an issue?

So here's my thought.  Everyone participates in PoG and every tithe to the Foundation counts.  By contributing you get "RGC" - Recent Giving Credit.  Then a daily superblock pays out the PoG recipients like PoDC does.  So only one payment, less traffic since only one tithe a day would be necessary.

Then your tithe has a half life, and every day, is worth 50% (or some other target) of the previous day.

So, if the Team RGC is 10,000, then someone tithing 1000 would get 1000/10,0000 or 1/10th the daily reward.  The next day, that 1000 gift on Monday would still be worth 500 RCG points, and if the next day the team RCG was still 10K, they would get 1/20th the daily reward.

Granted, i still affirm working on simplifying PoDC is the optimal strategy, but I think something like this would simply the logic of PoG, reduce transactions and overall be better for the blockchain than what has been sketched out thus far.


  • sunk818
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Re: Testnet - Test Proof of Giving
« Reply #230 on: January 02, 2019, 06:33:48 pm »
Brilliant idea. 10 day decay is easy to calculate, no? Day 1 is 100% reward, day 2 is 90% reward. All the data is on the block chain for calculating pog rewards so there shouldn't be any missed payments due to relying on outside data sources (eg Rosetta wcg etc)?


  • Rob Andrews
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Re: Testnet - Test Proof of Giving
« Reply #231 on: January 02, 2019, 07:14:47 pm »
1.1.7.7 - Leisure Upgrade
Mandatory Upgrade for TestNet


- MIP added WIN exit handler (in getboincmetrics during initialization) - Test to see if this stops crashing in Win10 Home (be sure to set boincmetrics=0 first)
- Moved exec tithe and exec titheinfo to : tithe and titheinfo
- Added a spork to allow us to add or remove POG training wheels (allows devs to attempt to verify forks)
- Added nickname to 'titheinfo' (Allows user to see config is being recognized)
- Modified POG to only look back 16 blocks (prevent forks)
- POG 24 hour tithes is now based on the last 16 blocks extrapolated out to 24 hours


  • Ichthus220
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Re: Testnet - Test Proof of Giving
« Reply #232 on: January 02, 2019, 09:16:59 pm »
I've downloaded 1.1.7.7 and it seems to get stuck at "Activating best chain...". How long should it take?


  • Ichthus220
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Re: Testnet - Test Proof of Giving
« Reply #233 on: January 02, 2019, 09:43:45 pm »
I've downloaded 1.1.7.7 and it seems to get stuck at "Activating best chain...". How long should it take?

Nevermind, it just took about 20 minutes.


  • MIP
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Re: Testnet - Test Proof of Giving
« Reply #234 on: January 03, 2019, 05:21:30 am »
I seem to be in the right chain but still have problems to see my nickname in pogpool and the chat shows blank

Code: [Select]
pogpool
{
  "ySwRWw1EEEMyGSz4iiWVAwryXbxBTumiPG": "Amount: 637.00, Weight: 1.0000, Payment_Tier: 0, Height: 101505, NickName: randrews",
  "High Tithe": 637.2,
  "Total Tithes": 637.2,
  "Total Participants": 1,
  "POG Difficulty": 10206.64793502028,
  "My Tithes": 0,
  "My Nickname": ""
}

Also I can't tithe but I think this is because my coins are not old enough at current diff level (2-3 days).



  • orbis
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Re: Testnet - Test Proof of Giving
« Reply #235 on: January 03, 2019, 09:30:54 am »
I have it same like MIP.
After first tithe I was on POGpool and rewards were coming, but then it suddenly stoped.
Auto tithes works, but I'm not on POGpool anymore and rewards are missing.
BTW: those rewards are really "spamy". One reward per day would be awesome.

BTW2: today it was first time that I saw someone on chat.
I left public chat window open for several hours (but i was AFK) and I have there message from ichtus220 :D
I see that he joined and leaved chat. Interresting is that I've never see anyone else. I see only 3 nodes in my connections. It is that problem? You can see on chat only people from your connections?


  • Rob Andrews
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Re: Testnet - Test Proof of Giving
« Reply #236 on: January 03, 2019, 09:47:39 am »
I seem to be in the right chain but still have problems to see my nickname in pogpool and the chat shows blank

Code: [Select]
pogpool
{
  "ySwRWw1EEEMyGSz4iiWVAwryXbxBTumiPG": "Amount: 637.00, Weight: 1.0000, Payment_Tier: 0, Height: 101505, NickName: randrews",
  "High Tithe": 637.2,
  "Total Tithes": 637.2,
  "Total Participants": 1,
  "POG Difficulty": 10206.64793502028,
  "My Tithes": 0,
  "My Nickname": ""
}

Also I can't tithe but I think this is because my coins are not old enough at current diff level (2-3 days).

Oh, ok I remember something now - when your nickname is not set up (IE its empty) Chat does Not work - it needs a name to work.

On your nickname, I think I know the problem - Im not sure if you saw my prior message, but please create a biblepaytest.conf here:
~/.biblepaycore/biblepaytest.conf


If you place:  nickname=yyyy
testnet=1
tithe=N

In there, you should then be able to reboot and see the nickname in 'pogpool'?

Start program like this:
./biblepay-qt -conf=biblepaytest.conf
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 10:01:55 am by Rob Andrews »


  • Rob Andrews
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Re: Testnet - Test Proof of Giving
« Reply #237 on: January 03, 2019, 10:01:09 am »
Would treating PoG like RAC be an issue?

So here's my thought.  Everyone participates in PoG and every tithe to the Foundation counts.  By contributing you get "RGC" - Recent Giving Credit.  Then a daily superblock pays out the PoG recipients like PoDC does.  So only one payment, less traffic since only one tithe a day would be necessary.

Then your tithe has a half life, and every day, is worth 50% (or some other target) of the previous day.

So, if the Team RGC is 10,000, then someone tithing 1000 would get 1000/10,0000 or 1/10th the daily reward.  The next day, that 1000 gift on Monday would still be worth 500 RCG points, and if the next day the team RCG was still 10K, they would get 1/20th the daily reward.

Granted, i still affirm working on simplifying PoDC is the optimal strategy, but I think something like this would simply the logic of PoG, reduce transactions and overall be better for the blockchain than what has been sketched out thus far.

So on this idea, I like the idea of consolidating the transactions down to one single superblock per day, as that would allow us to expand our difficulty window back to 205 blocks (IE less volatility in the Pog Diff), and of course it would reduce the spam for each wallet (which is a very good pro I think).  (I also like how we will be able to calculate payments just once per day - that I believe will work great) - that should make the system more efficient.

Honestly, the reason I originally deprioritized the idea of a superblock was because this original POG idea being an extension to our mining algorithm,
 it was originally considering the immediate tithe_weight (of the reaper of the active blockhash) and influencing the ability to solve the block. 

However, having a once per day pogpool payout sounds like a really good feature.

On the POG RAC idea, its kind of 'interesting' but Im not sure if it doesnt add more complexity to it.  Lets be real, POG is not complicated, we are down to only a couple variables (pog diff, coin difficulty parameters (age-amount-max tithe)) - and adding RAC would probably just give us a longer lifetime of a tithe.  The main problem with implementing POG RAC is then we need to keep track of a 'pog ID' and a 'pog prior RAC' (in order to calculate current rac in a decay fashion).  That is adding a lot more complexity (in contrast to sum of tithes per POG ID in one given day).  Right now we just need to capture sum of tithes over a 24 hour period.  But specifically, RAC doesnt solve the POG difficulty problem - we still need the existing POG difficulty to govern whether a tithe is legal for a certain block and we also still need our exiting tithe cap.  So it appears rac would just give users a smoother diminishing reward - but going to that requires contracts - I think we can do the daily superblock for POG without a governance contract (which is a Pro, as Ive been trying to make it so pog does not require any third party data to come to a consensus for the payment vector). 

So in light of this, I think it would be in our best interests to look into a daily POG superblock.  The biggest requirement for this is it requires me to allocate funds from the daily heat mining budget for the superblock (IE only reaper rewards are issued block to block) and that 'pogpool portion' is paid in the actual superblock daily.

Whats nice about testnet is we will see this in action 4 times per day as soon as we test, so we should be able to sort this out pretty quickly.



  • MIP
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Re: Testnet - Test Proof of Giving
« Reply #238 on: January 03, 2019, 10:03:16 am »
Oh, ok I remember something now - when your nickname is not set up (IE its empty) Chat does Not work - it needs a name to work.

On your nickname, I think I know the problem - Im not sure if you saw my prior message, but please create a biblepaytest.conf here:
~/.biblepaycore/biblepaytest.conf


If you place:  nickname=yyyy
testnet=1
tithe=N

In there, you should then be able to reboot and see the nickname in 'pogpool'?

Thanks, I did read your message and already tried, in fact I changed "MIP" to other larger lowcase nick, in case there was some issue... but it seems to keep ignoring me. And I don't know how to troubleshoot.

This is what I have now:

Code: [Select]
testnet=1
shrinkdebuglog=1
debug=true
debugmaster=true
tithe=3
nickname=mobiledev
genproclimit=1
gen=1

and then after relaunching:

Code: [Select]
pogpool
{
  "ySwRWw1EEEMyGSz4iiWVAwryXbxBTumiPG": "Amount: 879.00, Weight: 1.0000, Payment_Tier: 0, Height: 101722, NickName: randrews",
  "High Tithe": 879.3,
  "Total Tithes": 879.3,
  "Total Participants": 1,
  "POG Difficulty": 14084.597503552,
  "My Tithes": 0,
  "My Nickname": ""
}


  • Rob Andrews
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Re: Testnet - Test Proof of Giving
« Reply #239 on: January 03, 2019, 10:08:28 am »
I have it same like MIP.
After first tithe I was on POGpool and rewards were coming, but then it suddenly stoped.
Auto tithes works, but I'm not on POGpool anymore and rewards are missing.
BTW: those rewards are really "spamy". One reward per day would be awesome.

BTW2: today it was first time that I saw someone on chat.
I left public chat window open for several hours (but i was AFK) and I have there message from ichtus220 :D
I see that he joined and leaved chat. Interresting is that I've never see anyone else. I see only 3 nodes in my connections. It is that problem? You can see on chat only people from your connections?

Well you should receive 15 rewards in this current version for one tithe, as the pool contains the last 16 blocks in it, maybe diff was high when you wrote this and the remainings came in after you posted.  On that front things look OK.  But yes, Ill look into a daily superblock today.

On Chat, you can actually talk to anyone on the whole network.  I think the problem is no one is using it.  I havent had much time to keep it open.  But yeah, it forwards the message through other nodes to every node.