Bible Pay

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  • togoshigekata
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Ban Slovakia from Talking for 6 months
« on: September 29, 2018, 05:53:46 pm »
Slovkia was already banned from Reddit, Discord and BiblePay Forum, all on separate past occasions for his toxic behavior (like cursing, spreading misinformation, attacking christians, etc)

I believe he is a constant de-motivating, de-moralizing and distracting force, even though he does provide a little bit of value. I believe he has been given way too many chances to change and that he has shown zero interest in ever changing his behavior.

I would like to request that Slovakia be banned from all BiblePay communication channels for 6 months for his behavior

Known Alts:
slovakia (bitcointalk)
klondike (biblepay forum)
canopussy (reddit, discord)
legendarywoman (reddit)
cluster (slack)
rene (facebook)
michelle (telegram, bitcointalk)

You cannot ban someone from a Bitcointalk thread, but I believe if you ask them to stop posting in your moderated thread and they keep posting it is considered abuse and is bannable by Forum Admins


  • sunk818
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Re: Ban Slovakia from Talking for 6 months
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2018, 12:19:13 am »
A true Christian would show love to their enemies. What you're suggesting is certainly logical. Christians are asked to adhere to a higher standard that is not logical nor makes any sense in the eyes of the world. Let's show the world how Christians are different.


  • thesnat21
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Re: Ban Slovakia from Talking for 6 months
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2018, 08:43:23 am »
I agree his posts are generally negative.

I also agree with Sun,  as Christians we are called to "love our enemies, and pray for those that persecute you".

This proposal seems inappropriate, at best it will stop some of his comments, he can always create new accounts.



  • klondike
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Re: Ban Slovakia from Talking for 6 months
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2018, 11:57:47 am »
looooooooooooooool idiot which doesnt know save wallet.dat


HAHAHAHAHA........ this is leeeeeeeeeeeegendary noooooob


  • Rob Andrews
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Re: Ban Slovakia from Talking for 6 months
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2018, 11:13:55 pm »
We love our enemies, but not at the expense of hurting net children sponsorships.

Yes, I think Slovakia can be forgiven if he apologized and repented, and we are to forgive multiple times, but not at the expense of losing the equivalent of 100 monthly orphan sponsorships due to price damage from Toxicity, swearing and plain bad environment.

I agree with this in general.

« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 06:46:14 am by Rob A. »


  • sunk818
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Re: Ban Slovakia from Talking for 6 months
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2018, 11:07:29 am »
However, I think Sun might be falling dangerously close in the same category I describe above:  Hes causing investor damage and hurting our orphan relationships.  Sun, you need to tone it down on the public forum, lest the same fate happens to you as Slovakia.  Please don't follow in his footsteps.

I will put your behavior in context. Your behavior was abhorrent before I arrived. I believe it will continue to be whether I am here or not unless you change your ways. I believe you can not truly see yourself and have a delusional view of who you are.


  • Rob Andrews
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Re: Ban Slovakia from Talking for 6 months
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2018, 06:54:03 am »
I will put your behavior in context. Your behavior was abhorrent before I arrived. I believe it will continue to be whether I am here or not unless you change your ways. I believe you can not truly see yourself and have a delusional view of who you are.


However, what you are wrong about is my responses before you came were based on actual non warranted attacks by people with deranged characters.  I should be the one people are standing up for.  Therefore my attitude is not delusional.  You appear to be siding with the original attackers, which means you are siding with the mean-spirited.  Maybe you have a delusional view of your own character?  Is it a view of a non-loving person?  It should be?  Very similar to thesnats:  One who forgives in a fake way and goes right back to the same hateful behavior.

Anyway, its apparent that you dont have the character of one who forgives - but I will forgive if you will become nice.


« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 09:18:08 am by Rob A. »


  • thesnat21
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Re: Ban Slovakia from Talking for 6 months
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2018, 09:55:36 am »

However, what you are wrong about is my responses before you came were based on actual non warranted attacks by people with deranged characters.  I should be the one people are standing up for.  Therefore my attitude is not delusional.  You appear to be siding with the original attackers, which means you are siding with the mean-spirited.  Maybe you have a delusional view of your own character?  Is it a view of a non-loving person?  It should be?  Very similar to thesnats:  One who forgives in a fake way and goes right back to the same hateful behavior.

Anyway, its apparent that you dont have the character of one who forgives - but I will forgive if you will become nice.

I don't know of any routinely active person that has not felt alienated by you at one point or another..

Please, before you continue judging others character take a step back.   You cannot judge if I have forgiven you or not,  and if you have the same condescending tone and publicly ridicule someone repeatedly you are showing an unrepentant heart.

A statement or a question is not by itself an attack.   If you perceive it as one and respond accordingly it's not the other person's fault.



  • thesnat21
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Re: Ban Slovakia from Talking for 6 months
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2018, 10:45:39 am »
https://pastorrick.com/four-characteristics-of-biblical-forgiveness

I'll be the first to admit I fail at this, but it's a good refresher, and something i'm working towards.

https://pastorrick.com/three-reasons-god-says-to-forgive-others
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 05:37:06 am by thesnat21 »


  • Rob Andrews
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Re: Ban Slovakia from Talking for 6 months
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2018, 03:35:46 pm »
I don't know of any routinely active person that has not felt alienated by you at one point or another..

Please, before you continue judging others character take a step back.   You cannot judge if I have forgiven you or not,  and if you have the same condescending tone and publicly ridicule someone repeatedly you are showing an unrepentant heart.

A statement or a question is not by itself an attack.   If you perceive it as one and respond accordingly it's not the other person's fault.

"I don't know of any routinely active person that has not felt alienated by you at one point or another.. "
-> Well how about who I work with every day: Togo, Jaap, LukeF?  Are they alienated by me or have ever been?
Or the other 99% I deal with pool questions, email and forum replies.  The 1% is as always has been the 1% who argue in the past - the people who have posted in the hate group thread and who have been argumentative, its a handful of people who repeatedly do this, its the Opposite of what you say above.




"Please, before you continue judging others character take a step back.   You cannot judge if I have forgiven you or not,  and if you have the same condescending tone and publicly ridicule someone repeatedly you are showing an unrepentant heart.
"
-> Sorry, but I'm not judging.  I am in every case defending my position of being attacked.  And I do forgive, 100%, as I forgave you - and am willing to forget the past and start over, but I keep getting reminded when someone like you claims we are good again and then you make some public post that No I really didnt forgive you Rob, Im an Indian Giver, it was a lie. 

"A statement or a question is not by itself an attack.   If you perceive it as one and respond accordingly it's not the other person's fault."
-> Right, I think my reply history shows Im smart enough to realize that.  In every case, problems started occurring when someone attacks the coin or me personally in a degrading way.  A person who judges should be smart enough to do the due diligence and make a polite post about the problem.  I have no problem with criticism if its done in a cautious way, and Im all for improving every part of biblepay.




  • togoshigekata
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Re: Ban Slovakia from Talking for 6 months
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2018, 07:45:16 pm »
I think this drama should just be resolved, its distracting and energy wasting and makes BiblePay look bad, I'm disappointed in all parties involved.

Rob, I think theres room for improvement on your handling of criticism,
Thesnat and Sun, you guys have been rude, and hold Rob to unrealistic expectations

An instance where you didnt handle criticism well Rob, long ago in testnet, 616west pointed out that your understanding of the RAC forumla was wrong, you got upset, and then it turned out he was right,

I can go through the history and point out more things like this.

Here is an example of the aftermath of you getting upset at another person:
https://hardforum.com/threads/how-to-set-up-biblepay-and-also-get-free-coin-for-dcing.1960766/

In general its bad PR and bad Business to get upset with the customers, LOL
I think we have to "kill em with kindness", or just ignore them, thats where Ive gotten to with Slovakia

=

Rob, after you got upset with me about the proposal system, I did start communicating with you less :(

You are a human too and have emotions and breaking points.
and You are extremely underappreciated and extremely overly criticized.

Youve sacrificed so much for this project, and built something unique and amazing.

Its tough dealing with the public. Ive almost snapped at someone in BiblePay myself.

Anyways, There is a slight pattern of you driving a few people away Rob LOL
Whether they would have left naturally anyways, I dont know

Throughout the history of the project Ive had a few people come talk to me after getting upset with you,
and I just have to explain that your a mad genius under stress LOL,

My goal is to spread BiblePay to everyone, to get and keep as many people as I can into the project, to multiply our growth and message

Naturally there is going to be drama and disagreements,
I think the drama will only increase with time and with more people involved

I dont think you need more criticism Rob, I think you need more love, I really wish people would see that

I worry about you every day Rob <3

=

A monthly or biweekly BiblePay voice chat / conference call  would be cool, I think it could help the community feel more connected to each other, and realize there are humans on each end.


  • jaapgvk
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Re: Ban Slovakia from Talking for 6 months
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2018, 05:52:15 am »
I personally never felt alienated by anyone in the BiblePay community, but I have spent a lot of energy talking to people who did feel alienated. I have stopped doing that, because it just took too large a toll on me. It's in my personality to try and keep people together and to keep communications as open as possible, but I don't think it's healthy for my well-being long-term to continue to try and be the middle-man in discussions. So if a discussion doesn't involve myself personally, I have decided to stay out of it for the time being.

I have felt bad in the past when I read reactions by a number of people, because I felt that emotions became the reason for certain responses (something which I will never deny doing myself also). And while I think there should be a place for people to release their emotions, I don't think that a public forum is the right place for that if we want investors to have faith in the future of BiblePay. And yes, the impact of slovakia's FUD on price should not be underestimated. And while we can counter the FUD with rationality, that will not entirely remove the impact of FUD, and I think it's good to have a discussion about banning certain bad actors if they cross a certain threshold.

So, while I think that FUD is destructive, and I also have my personal struggles with slovakia, I would probably not vote 'yes' on banning him at this point. Leaving FUD out of it for the moment, I think that moderation is something that is sometimes necessary simply because the world is not utopian in the sense of people always having such good emphatic abilities to relate to the responses of others. But I'd rather that we try to approach 'people like slovakia' with as much love as we are able to muster at a certain time.

We don't know each others past, we don't know each others internal world, and we don't know how much is miscommunication because of upbringing/culture/language/etc.

I realize that my position on this is a bit vague, but that's because there are so many points of view on this. Still, I think that it's good to be able to have a discussion about things like this.


  • thesnat21
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Re: Ban Slovakia from Talking for 6 months
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2018, 08:06:03 am »
"I don't know of any routinely active person that has not felt alienated by you at one point or another.. "
-> Well how about who I work with every day: Togo, Jaap, LukeF?  Are they alienated by me or have ever been?
Or the other 99% I deal with pool questions, email and forum replies.  The 1% is as always has been the 1% who argue in the past - the people who have posted in the hate group thread and who have been argumentative, its a handful of people who repeatedly do this, its the Opposite of what you say above.


Fair point,  I have asked some of the more public ones if I could share on their behalf,   I appreciate Togo stepping up on his own as for the others we will wait and see

I do agree you have more interactions than the BCT forums, and my view has been somewhat jaded (it's on me to correct this.)

I have asked the others to call me out if i'm being out of line as well. (Thanks Togo!)  As I know how important it is to have other voices speaking to you (not just the ones in my head haha)


"Please, before you continue judging others character take a step back.   You cannot judge if I have forgiven you or not,  and if you have the same condescending tone and publicly ridicule someone repeatedly you are showing an unrepentant heart.
"
-> Sorry, but I'm not judging.  I am in every case defending my position of being attacked.  And I do forgive, 100%, as I forgave you - and am willing to forget the past and start over, but I keep getting reminded when someone like you claims we are good again and then you make some public post that No I really didnt forgive you Rob, Im an Indian Giver, it was a lie. 


"A statement or a question is not by itself an attack.   If you perceive it as one and respond accordingly it's not the other person's fault."
-> Right, I think my reply history shows Im smart enough to realize that.  In every case, problems started occurring when someone attacks the coin or me personally in a degrading way.  A person who judges should be smart enough to do the due diligence and make a polite post about the problem.  I have no problem with criticism if its done in a cautious way, and Im all for improving every part of biblepay.


This is something we can work on together.    I'll work on HOW I say things,  and waiting to respond if something upsets me so i can have a cooler head (I cannot speak for others but I will encourage them to do the same..)   

But in turn, I would ask that you try to understand where we're coming from as well,  most of us were not trying to attack, and want to see this project succeed.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 08:24:59 am by thesnat21 »


  • togoshigekata
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Re: Ban Slovakia from Talking for 6 months
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2018, 03:43:53 pm »
I didnt want to get in the middle of this drama, I was hoping things would work out naturally, thesnat kind of forced my hand into talking by risking exposing my previous conversations with him, but I also felt maybe its finally time for you to hear what I have seen Rob given the continued drama between parties.

Do we need a clear set of forum rules posted somewhere?

RULES:
1. Do not make assumptions or false statements
2. Talk in a nice tone and manner, be polite and appreciative
3. Be willing to do work/research/experience, or Find someone who can, People are busy

Some sort of 3 strike your out system would be interesting,

I made this thread because Slovakia upset me enough to where I lost motivation to do any work for the day, and it wasnt the first time it had happened, and I knew he was probably effecting other team members, Ive since clicked ignore on his profile, but to be good PR person I have to know everything everyone is saying so I click unignore every time he posts, sigh

I worry about the emotional wellbeing of the people doing work. I dont think most people realize how much sacrifice is going on already and how close to the edge of sanity people are already at.

Im not sure how to vote on this proposal, I wish I didnt have to make it to begin with


  • thesnat21
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Re: Ban Slovakia from Talking for 6 months
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2018, 07:45:43 pm »
I didnt want to get in the middle of this drama, I was hoping things would work out naturally, thesnat kind of forced my hand into talking by risking exposing my previous conversations with him, but I also felt maybe its finally time for you to hear what I have seen Rob given the continued drama between parties.

To be fair, I asked if I could share something limited.   I do not  want to betray any trust.... 

Do we need a clear set of forum rules posted somewhere?

RULES:
1. Do not make assumptions or false statements
2. Talk in a nice tone and manner, be polite and appreciative
3. Be willing to do work/research/experience, or Find someone who can, People are busy

Some sort of 3 strike your out system would be interesting,

I made this thread because Slovakia upset me enough to where I lost motivation to do any work for the day, and it wasnt the first time it had happened, and I knew he was probably effecting other team members, Ive since clicked ignore on his profile, but to be good PR person I have to know everything everyone is saying so I click unignore every time he posts, sigh

I worry about the emotional wellbeing of the people doing work. I dont think most people realize how much sacrifice is going on already and how close to the edge of sanity people are already at.

Im not sure how to vote on this proposal, I wish I didnt have to make it to begin with

The rules are fair,  and back to "talk in a way the children can read the thread" .. is a good fallback.

The issue I have with this is:

We're called to show the love of Christ,  and we cannot do that if we are "banning" people, calling names, or being derogatory ..

I find it very hard, but Matthew 5:44 calls us to:
"But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,"

This includes people like Slovakia.   They represent the ones we need to "kill with kindness".

If we can accomplish this, how much better will we, and this project flourish?

I am hoping we are coming to a new understanding,   in the past I have frankly been reluctant to discuss this project with others due to what had been transpiring.   I'm hoping God is redeeming this and we are moving forward.