Bible Pay

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  • Rob Andrews
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Re: TestNet Testing Thread
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2017, 10:16:34 am »
Sorry I forgot to add I actually tried to send it without the password part! Could it be the length maybe?

For the Cloudflare cache, I know that it can cache a lot of things including js files so I'm not sure if that was modified? I'm only saying that because I'm pretty sure I tried with multiple browsers and with my previous sessions cleared, but maybe I actually didn't!

Thanks for all the work! Happy to help if you need anything else!

Yes, the long length could possibly be causing an internal error in the cryptography class. Its hard to say if your pass got saved that way, or if its thrown at login.  We can look at that sometime in the future,

Today, only DLLs were changed, so no cache issues.


  • jaapgvk
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Re: TestNet Testing Thread
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2017, 10:00:08 am »
I saw the comment about the outgoing orphan letters on the bitcointalk-forum, so I would like to give some (hopefully helpful) feedback:

I know you could write letters in de old pool, but I can't find that option in the new one (nor can I figure out how to upvote letters), but maybe I'm just not seeing it. Another thing is that the 'BIRTHDAY TODAY' notes aren't really helpful, since they were only valid on the day they were added, so it might cause some confusion.


  • togoshigekata
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Re: TestNet Testing Thread
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2017, 10:46:44 am »
I saw the comment about the outgoing orphan letters on the bitcointalk-forum, so I would like to give some (hopefully helpful) feedback:

I know you could write letters in de old pool, but I can't find that option in the new one (nor can I figure out how to upvote letters), but maybe I'm just not seeing it. Another thing is that the 'BIRTHDAY TODAY' notes aren't really helpful, since they were only valid on the day they were added, so it might cause some confusion.

1. Go to Pool website: http://pool.biblepay.org/
2. Go to "Orphans" tab >>> "Sponsored Orphan List"
3. Right click row of Orphan
4. Write Letter, click Save!
5. Letter Writing Tips: http://pool.biblepay.org/LetterWritingTips.htm


  • jaapgvk
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Re: TestNet Testing Thread
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2017, 11:59:46 am »
1. Go to Pool website: http://pool.biblepay.org/
2. Go to "Orphans" tab >>> "Sponsored Orphan List"
3. Right click row of Orphan
4. Write Letter, click Save!
5. Letter Writing Tips: http://pool.biblepay.org/LetterWritingTips.htm

Thank you! I'm on a laptop with a touchpad, so it wasn't really intu´tive :)

Next thing: the vast majority of orphans have a 'correspondence language' that is non-English. I don't speak Spanish, Portugese etc. Is it even worthwhile to send these orphans letters in English?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 12:14:35 pm by jaapgvk »


  • Rob Andrews
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Re: TestNet Testing Thread
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2017, 09:51:06 am »
Thank you! I'm on a laptop with a touchpad, so it wasn't really intu´tive :)

Next thing: the vast majority of orphans have a 'correspondence language' that is non-English. I don't speak Spanish, Portugese etc. Is it even worthwhile to send these orphans letters in English?
The right click menus in the pool Are intuitive, they are not instinctual.  The contrast being that once people know right click options exist, and there is only one way to perform certain weblist tasks, at that point becomes valuable and intuitive (as more options are added to weblists).  In contrast to the way Microsoft veered away in its latest office software design requiring you to Switch Screens to perform a list of certain functions (non-intuitive, possibly idiotic), while caving to the left wing consulting groups for the sake of internationalization.

Anyway, the pool only supports English right now.  I realize the 'proper' way to do it is to support multiple native languages, by creating a captioning system that supports language overloads.  That can be a project for my slack team.  In the mean time let me make a distinction here:  English as the only user interface language is referred to : UI Interface Language->English, and communicating with orphans is referred to as:  Operations->Communication.    I just want to make a distinction between our software UI and our day to day ops.

When you use the User Interface in English, the translators at compassion will automatically translate the letter from English to the native orphan language, and regenerate the final hardcopy and mail it to the orphan :)!  So thats a big bonus for us.  What I have to find out is:  Are we required to write in English, as  our bible_pay org account is signed up in English.  I believe that is the case currently.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 09:52:49 am by admin »


  • jaapgvk
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Re: TestNet Testing Thread
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2017, 01:38:29 pm »
The right click menus in the pool Are intuitive, they are not instinctual.  The contrast being that once people know right click options exist, and there is only one way to perform certain weblist tasks, at that point becomes valuable and intuitive (as more options are added to weblists).  In contrast to the way Microsoft veered away in its latest office software design requiring you to Switch Screens to perform a list of certain functions (non-intuitive, possibly idiotic), while caving to the left wing consulting groups for the sake of internationalization.

Anyway, the pool only supports English right now.  I realize the 'proper' way to do it is to support multiple native languages, by creating a captioning system that supports language overloads.  That can be a project for my slack team.  In the mean time let me make a distinction here:  English as the only user interface language is referred to : UI Interface Language->English, and communicating with orphans is referred to as:  Operations->Communication.    I just want to make a distinction between our software UI and our day to day ops.

When you use the User Interface in English, the translators at compassion will automatically translate the letter from English to the native orphan language, and regenerate the final hardcopy and mail it to the orphan :)!  So thats a big bonus for us.  What I have to find out is:  Are we required to write in English, as  our bible_pay org account is signed up in English.  I believe that is the case currently.

You're absolutely right. I saw that more right-click features have been added, and I already noticed some screens popping up as a sort of overlay (I'm not really familiar with the technical terms). It's just that I was expecting a 'normal website', so I didn't think about right-clicking. But it has already become second nature now, and I must say that I'm impressed :)

It's great to hear that there are translators working at compassion.com. That takes away my worry about that point.
 
There are a few other observations that I'd like to make:
1. Is it an idea so somehow integrate all the sent/received letters per orphan in one place, so that you can see right away what the last letter is? Because now I have to first look if there's a letter from a particular orphan, then I have to scroll down the 'outgoing letters' tab to see if someone else didn't write first, and then I have to go to the 'sponsored orphan list' to actually write a letter. I know it's not really compatible with the 'upvote list', but it's just a thought.

2. Related to point 1: The letters are a bit personal in nature (questions asked/answers received), and I was wondering how we as a group can streamline this. I guess a one-on-one writing relationship between orphan and biblepay user is not really practical, especially with the upvoting system. Also, the name I see accompanying a lot of letters is 'Robert', but of course I have a different name. So isn't it confusing for the orphans to receive letters from a lot of different users? Or is it a common thing to sponsor orphans as a group?


  • Rob Andrews
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Re: TestNet Testing Thread
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2017, 07:22:38 am »
You're absolutely right. I saw that more right-click features have been added, and I already noticed some screens popping up as a sort of overlay (I'm not really familiar with the technical terms). It's just that I was expecting a 'normal website', so I didn't think about right-clicking. But it has already become second nature now, and I must say that I'm impressed :)

It's great to hear that there are translators working at compassion.com. That takes away my worry about that point.
 
There are a few other observations that I'd like to make:
1. Is it an idea so somehow integrate all the sent/received letters per orphan in one place, so that you can see right away what the last letter is? Because now I have to first look if there's a letter from a particular orphan, then I have to scroll down the 'outgoing letters' tab to see if someone else didn't write first, and then I have to go to the 'sponsored orphan list' to actually write a letter. I know it's not really compatible with the 'upvote list', but it's just a thought.

2. Related to point 1: The letters are a bit personal in nature (questions asked/answers received), and I was wondering how we as a group can streamline this. I guess a one-on-one writing relationship between orphan and biblepay user is not really practical, especially with the upvoting system. Also, the name I see accompanying a lot of letters is 'Robert', but of course I have a different name. So isn't it confusing for the orphans to receive letters from a lot of different users? Or is it a common thing to sponsor orphans as a group?


Wow, you have some great ideas here.  Well as you know I believe you wrote #1 before we had the NeedsWritten column decimal (1 or 0), however its still valid in the sense that it would be nice to see outgoing leters to a distinct orphan grouped together, the list order by added descending, and maybe the top page has the most recent activity.  I dont mind doing it but this brings up one sorely needed feature for the web list that is missing: pagination.  Maybe I need to step back, and add pagination to the web list first.  If you want you can put a ticket in for me to group outgoing letters by orphan and added descending - assign to bible_pay for programming.

On #2, I agree very much that these  letters are personal and up til now didnt think we had anything we could do to combat that (I thought you know we are doing the greater good here, so we have to live with it).  But you bring up a great point, we could probably just as well allow one on one private letters, but that brings up the original problem.  The reason they are public is so the community can do the work of upvoting in order to 'approve' the letters so I dont become a letter policeman for my day job - so I can be free to keep programming.  So the condundrum is, if we allow private letters how do we know the letter doesnt contain expletives and things about my house is so big I wish I could share it but too bad?


  • maarek
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Re: TestNet Testing Thread
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2017, 04:44:42 pm »

Wow, you have some great ideas here.  Well as you know I believe you wrote #1 before we had the NeedsWritten column decimal (1 or 0), however its still valid in the sense that it would be nice to see outgoing leters to a distinct orphan grouped together, the list order by added descending, and maybe the top page has the most recent activity.  I dont mind doing it but this brings up one sorely needed feature for the web list that is missing: pagination.  Maybe I need to step back, and add pagination to the web list first.  If you want you can put a ticket in for me to group outgoing letters by orphan and added descending - assign to bible_pay for programming.

On #2, I agree very much that these  letters are personal and up til now didnt think we had anything we could do to combat that (I thought you know we are doing the greater good here, so we have to live with it).  But you bring up a great point, we could probably just as well allow one on one private letters, but that brings up the original problem.  The reason they are public is so the community can do the work of upvoting in order to 'approve' the letters so I dont become a letter policeman for my day job - so I can be free to keep programming.  So the condundrum is, if we allow private letters how do we know the letter doesnt contain expletives and things about my house is so big I wish I could share it but too bad?

Since letters are likely going to occur in batches, could letter reviews become a Sanctuary oversight function? Perhaps tie vote power to accurate review of letters (which could be done by distributing each letter to 2 or more sanctuaries and using a 2of2 of 2of3, 3of4, 4of5...etc approval process)? That way it decentralizes the review process but at the same time limits the public exposure to those nodes that are part of the governing org of the crypto.


  • jaapgvk
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Re: TestNet Testing Thread
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2017, 03:51:59 am »

Wow, you have some great ideas here.  Well as you know I believe you wrote #1 before we had the NeedsWritten column decimal (1 or 0), however its still valid in the sense that it would be nice to see outgoing leters to a distinct orphan grouped together, the list order by added descending, and maybe the top page has the most recent activity.  I dont mind doing it but this brings up one sorely needed feature for the web list that is missing: pagination.  Maybe I need to step back, and add pagination to the web list first.  If you want you can put a ticket in for me to group outgoing letters by orphan and added descending - assign to bible_pay for programming.

On #2, I agree very much that these  letters are personal and up til now didnt think we had anything we could do to combat that (I thought you know we are doing the greater good here, so we have to live with it).  But you bring up a great point, we could probably just as well allow one on one private letters, but that brings up the original problem.  The reason they are public is so the community can do the work of upvoting in order to 'approve' the letters so I dont become a letter policeman for my day job - so I can be free to keep programming.  So the condundrum is, if we allow private letters how do we know the letter doesnt contain expletives and things about my house is so big I wish I could share it but too bad?

Happy to help and to provide feedback on the project :) i tried to send you a ticket, but at first it didn't seem to work, so I also send you a couple of 'test messages'. Is there a max on the amount of letters you can use on a ticket? Because at first I typed a few sentences and it wouldn't send, but when I shortened it, it would.

I would really like to have a better overview on which orphan was send what, and what their replies were, because now I feel a bit lost when I try to send a letter, because I don't have an overview of the current state of things. Well right now it isn't that bad, but as more and more letters and send and replies are gotten, the more it will become messy in my view.

About #2: I didn't mean that they were explicitly private in the sense that they weren't approvable by others.  But If I was an orphan, I would become confused as to who is actually writing to me. Is it an idea that we start our relationship with orphans by stating that we are a group of people who joined hands to help them? Because if I was an orphan that was adopted, and I started receiving letters from 'bob12' one day and 'hobo_strike' the other (who didn't even reply to my question to bob12), I'd be a little confused and probably hesitant to write another letter.

But I think that this problem would solve itself if we can somehow make more explicit who's writing who in a nice overview. That way you can see who send which letter to whom, and upvote a new letter accordingly.

So for example, Heather wrote a letter to an orphan, the orphan replied, and you can see this in the overview. Now, Heather wrote another letter to the same orphan. I, as a voter, would then upvote Heaters letters, because it fits. If 'hobo_strike' comes along 'mid conversation' and tries to send a completely irrelevant letter, I could downvote it.
If Heather stops with the project, people can see that there hasn't been send a letter to 'her orphan' for some time, because it's near the bottom of the list (sorted by date). I would then be incentivised to start a new conversation with that particular orphan, stating that Heather seems to be gone, but that we are a group, and continue the 'back an forth' where Heather left off. Hobo_stike could to the same here, and his letter would now get upvotes because people can see that it's been a long time since Heater replied, and hobo_strike also replies to questions the orphan asked.

Just an example of course, and if we introduce ourselves as a group from the beginning, it wouldn't be confusing to the orphan I guess?