Bible Pay

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  • Rob Andrews
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    • June 05, 2017, 08:09:04 pm
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Yes, I did think you might have wanted the number to be bigger. Yeah, I mentioned I missed the word "share".


I did think of a simple "pie" thing, and its good, dont get me wrong but there was one other consideration other than large numbers.
There is a chance that when biblepay grows, we might make biblepay consider more than one projects RAC, for example 30% from Alzheimers research and 70% from cancer. 

Magnitude is a term I am coining for "consolidated project effectiveness as a researcher" so its slightly different than a pure percent when you consider the possibility of blending two projects together.

I deliberately kept the system simple in that it only works with Rosetta, but PODC is generic in the back end enough to potentially go with more than one blended project in the future.

If that ever happens your magnitude is the single number as a researcher across all biblepay projects.



  • ischindl
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    • February 12, 2018, 04:58:37 pm
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Looking at your spreadsheet, I only see the 591s and the .01s.  Are you looking at your own sheet, Where do you see sanctuary rewards on your node?

I see for example this:
false   14.02.18 18:45   Vy?ažené      yRThhHMA5rQqz5GTp37Ttn2dXajxpjKec8   5910.00000000   ebd77507e4e6aa1d6a2db1bb7d4eb226530255e2a55c05ddc2daf8207241a447-000


  • T-Mike
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    • February 06, 2018, 06:12:58 pm
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I did think of a simple "pie" thing, and its good, dont get me wrong but there was one other consideration other than large numbers.
There is a chance that when biblepay grows, we might make biblepay consider more than one projects RAC, for example 30% from Alzheimers research and 70% from cancer. 

Magnitude is a term I am coining for "consolidated project effectiveness as a researcher" so its slightly different than a pure percent when you consider the possibility of blending two projects together.

I deliberately kept the system simple in that it only works with Rosetta, but PODC is generic in the back end enough to potentially go with more than one blended project in the future.

If that ever happens your magnitude is the single number as a researcher across all biblepay projects.

I see, sounds good Rob. If all goes well I'll clone up 9 more nodes tomorrow.


  • orbis
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    • February 08, 2018, 04:37:14 pm
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Forgot to answer this post yesterday sorry,
Please see inline:

I was busy today, but thanks a lot for your answer Rob. And thanks for "getboincinfo" explanation too.
Those answers definitely fulfill my curiosity :)


  • Rob Andrews
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I see for example this:
false   14.02.18 18:45   Vy?ažené      yRThhHMA5rQqz5GTp37Ttn2dXajxpjKec8   5910.00000000   ebd77507e4e6aa1d6a2db1bb7d4eb226530255e2a55c05ddc2daf8207241a447-000
Oh yes, I didnt see that one!

That is certainly a rare one.  I looked up the issue on that one and it wont happen in prod.  What happened was masternode winners didnt have enough support for block 9694, so when that block came along you mined the entire budget ( masternode + heat reward) for yourself and the network accepted it.



  • Rob Andrews
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I see, sounds good Rob. If all goes well I'll clone up 9 more nodes tomorrow.
Awesome, lets see if your new getboincinfo looks good now, ie rac numbers came down to be accurate?  I just thought of something, we need a tool to see an in - wallet leaderboard report, like exec leaderboard, so we can see "cpid, magnitde" ranked from top to bottom, that will reveal any strange anomolies also...



  • T-Mike
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    • February 06, 2018, 06:12:58 pm
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Awesome, lets see if your new getboincinfo looks good now, ie rac numbers came down to be accurate?  I just thought of something, we need a tool to see an in - wallet leaderboard report, like exec leaderboard, so we can see "cpid, magnitde" ranked from top to bottom, that will reveal any strange anomolies also...

Rob, the information looks great now.

"Command": "getboincinfo",
  "CPID": "f80ab050ab53459ec937879a046d603e",
  "Address": "yjKEf6GvMkuiXLXibCCtj9wt4ZEBwQ5i84",
  "CPIDS": "e94c1704c75f731f8bfde303f08408ee;71f1f1f46deb2f25961c7d9af06f2b31;95a79cd5829e8315b0b946709930df18;cc37d0ef74a621379974484f43d3b1c5;f80ab050ab53459ec937879a046d603e;",
  "CPID-Age (hours)": 421848,
  "NextSuperblockHeight": 9999,
  "e94c1704c75f731f8bfde303f08408ee_RAC": 438.68,
  "71f1f1f46deb2f25961c7d9af06f2b31_RAC": 180.95,
  "95a79cd5829e8315b0b946709930df18_RAC": 151.15,
  "cc37d0ef74a621379974484f43d3b1c5_RAC": 185.96,
  "f80ab050ab53459ec937879a046d603e_RAC": 151.9,
  "Total_RAC": 1108.64,
  "Total Payments (One Day)": 71927,
  "Total Payments (One Week)": 1482797,
  "Total Budget (One Day)": 1365210,
  "Total Budget (One Week)": 48156570,
  "Superblock Count (One Week)": 66,
  "Superblock Hit Count (One Week)": 36,
  "Superblock List": "9702,9108,8613,8217,8118,8019,7821,7425,7326,7128,7029,6831,6732,6633,6534,6435,6336,6138,5940,5841,5742,5643,5247,5148,5049,4950,4851,4752,4653,4554,4455,4356,4257,4158,3762,3465",
  "Last Superblock Budget": 1386000,
  "Last Superblock Height": 9900,
  "Last Superblock Payment": -1,
  "Magnitude": 30.79116722806462


  • Rob Andrews
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Please see inline:

One concern brought up in Slack was "double dipping" with Gridcoin and Biblepay.  After looking around, it appears that is thankfully not easily done, and may be impossible.

->  We're on different blockchains, so I don't understand what double dipping would be.  If both chains paid for the same research it would influence the global arb rate for that project.  Gridcoin requires the researcher to be on their Boinc team (called team gridcoin, or you dont get paid) while we dont require a team - I did that intentionally so we can market biblepay to all existing Rosetta researchers. (Since we have unlimited scalability now).
.


One other thought that did come up on Slack was the reduction in hash power needed to do a 51% attack on PoW.  I'm not saying it is correct, since Gridcoin manages to secure their block chain with just the BOINC hashing.  My question then is would it be possible or practical to take the PoL work and instead of using Coin Age as a hash rate modifier (or difficulty modifier), would it be practical to use the RAC somehow to perform that function?  My thought is it would build upon the PoL work that has been done, might not diminish the number of blocks created by PoW and thus might preserve the high barrier for a 51% attack. 

-> Gridcoin is on POS, were on POW so there is no relationship, they have more of a propensity of a 51% attack by the buying vector, we have more of one from the brute force side (although I say for us- lower than most other coins after the cpid rule is in).  When we move to signed cpids, we have a reduction in hashpower but also a reduction in random unknown hashpower.  That does not increase the chances of a 51% attack it decreases it.   RAC has no relationship to hashpower, so adding RAC would not decrease the liklihood of a 51% attack (a person with high rac does not have high hashpower - we dont know what they have) - although adding a distinct CPID With RAC (which we did, makes it impossible to launch a horizontal cpid attack- thats one where you try to create many cpids- that rule is in testnet now, we require the CPID to be paid in the prior superblock with RAC & magnitude in order to mine).  We still have DGW in place to prevent 51% attacks, so that makes it extremely hard to perform.


The other concern brought up was if there might be a project similar in mission to BOINC but strictly for Christian researchers?  I was unaware of any.  However, it made me ponder the possibilities that some point down the road, if BBP becomes a major force where we sponsor thousands of orphans and do the miraculous, feeding widows and orphans from the virtual proceedings...think about the loaves and the fishes and you see where my mind picks up this as analogous, then perhaps this coin can merit some standing to create a portal for scientists who are Christians and doing Godly research.

->  One could create a boinc project more aligned with Jesus, but I dont know what that would be.  The biggest problem I see with that in contrast to Rosetta: Rosetta has 150 paid scientists on payroll so they are developing an extraordinarily complex program, where a homegrown "new"boinc project probably wouldnt do much, but its certainly worth exploring if someone comes up with a groundbreaking idea.


Just some thoughts on the matter as things move forward.  It's tremendously exciting!




  • jaapgvk
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    • September 01, 2017, 08:02:57 pm
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I think the Windows wallet is still mining as 'strong' as ever. On a 4-core  4-thread system, when I use 'setgenerate true 1', the wallet uses about 25% of the cpu-power (as it's always been). On my Linux testrig, it's way less since the latest updates.

I read somewhere in the thread that 'setgenerate true 1' should create a lot less hashpower than before (1% of what it would be previously?). So on Linux it seems to be working, but on Windows I'm not sure.

Both are 1.0.9.1. wallets btw.


  • Rob Andrews
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I think the Windows wallet is still mining as 'strong' as ever. On a 4-core  4-thread system, when I use 'setgenerate true 1', the wallet uses about 25% of the cpu-power (as it's always been). On my Linux testrig, it's way less since the latest updates.

I read somewhere in the thread that 'setgenerate true 1' should create a lot less hashpower than before (1% of what it would be previously?). So on Linux it seems to be working, but on Windows I'm not sure.

Both are 1.0.9.1. wallets btw.

Its possible that I built windows on 1091a and it missed the feature.  Ill look into that and let you know when I build the next windows and we can re-test. Thanks for pointing that out.

Nice to know linux is only using 1%.  Thats a very green and nice thing to know, as that means our efficiency just increased massively.



  • T-Mike
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    • February 06, 2018, 06:12:58 pm
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All 10 nodes on 1.0.9.1 now.


  • MIP
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    • February 13, 2018, 11:55:52 am
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From my side it seems it's working as expected, I get some payments although I can't evaluate whether they are correct or not-

I got 8 payments of 841 tBBP yesterday and 3 of 16259 tBBP each today.

{
  "Command": "getboincinfo",
  "CPID": "xxxxx",
  "Address": "yWKX5CXuPCJNLLSwUjqwQcUifnYToco1zM",
  "CPIDS": "xxxxx;",
  "CPID-Age (hours)": 421879,
  "NextSuperblockHeight": 11286,
  "xxxxx_RAC": 451.65,
  "Total_RAC": 451.65,
  "Total Payments (One Day)": 54699,
  "Total Payments (One Week)": 55545,
  "Total Budget (One Day)": 13652100,
  "Total Budget (One Week)": 52085880,
  "Superblock Count (One Week)": 66,
  "Superblock Hit Count (One Week)": 39,
  "Superblock List": "11187,11088,10989,10890,10791,10692,10593,10494,10395,10296,10098,9702,9108,8613,8217,8118,8019,7821,7425,7326,7128,7029,6831,6732,6633,6534,6435,6336,6138,5940,5841,5742,5643,5247,5148,5049,4950,4851,4752",
  "Last Superblock Budget": 1386000,
  "Last Superblock Height": 11187,
  "Last Superblock Payment": 16259,
  "Magnitude": 1.066411856725854
}

I hope this info is useful


  • togoshigekata
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    • September 01, 2017, 10:21:10 am
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I erased Ubuntu Server with Lubuntu and replaced with Ubuntu, (I am not a fan of Lubuntu now LOL)
I downloaded Ubuntu ISO and put it on a flash drive with program called Rufus (on Windows), and booted from the flash drive to install Ubuntu

After Installing BOINC, The BOINC Manager didnt have a menu, had to use SHIFT + ALT + A to switch to Advanced View,
then I read that you have to full screen the program to see the Menu, which worked, weird

I read in Rosetta forums that average Rosetta Work Unit (Task?) needs 0.5 GB RAM, not sure if its true, I was worried that was my issue of why I was seeing less tasks running, but I think I just had general issues with Lubuntu LOL, I bought another stick of RAM just in case since the machine in question only has 4GB RAM.

The Options >> Computing Preferences is actually really nice, much more functionality than just setting number of mining threads like in POW

Also my significant other has enjoyed seeing the proteins folding in the screensaver and is now okay with BOINC being installed on her PC (whereas earlier with POW she was against BiblePay being mined on her PC LOL)

I haven't been mining BiblePay for over a month or two, but this [email protected] stuff is really cool and has me back in, Im even tempted to get another PC for it!


  • Rob Andrews
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    • June 05, 2017, 08:09:04 pm
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I erased Ubuntu Server with Lubuntu and replaced with Ubuntu, (I am not a fan of Lubuntu now LOL)
I downloaded Ubuntu ISO and put it on a flash drive with program called Rufus (on Windows), and booted from the flash drive to install Ubuntu

After Installing BOINC, The BOINC Manager didnt have a menu, had to use SHIFT + ALT + A to switch to Advanced View,
then I read that you have to full screen the program to see the Menu, which worked, weird

I read in Rosetta forums that average Rosetta Work Unit (Task?) needs 0.5 GB RAM, not sure if its true, I was worried that was my issue of why I was seeing less tasks running, but I think I just had general issues with Lubuntu LOL, I bought another stick of RAM just in case since the machine in question only has 4GB RAM.

The Options >> Computing Preferences is actually really nice, much more functionality than just setting number of mining threads like in POW

Also my significant other has enjoyed seeing the proteins folding in the screensaver and is now okay with BOINC being installed on her PC (whereas earlier with POW she was against BiblePay being mined on her PC LOL)

I haven't been mining BiblePay for over a month or two, but this [email protected] stuff is really cool and has me back in, Im even tempted to get another PC for it!

Thats a cool story!  Yes I like how the competition "feels good" compared to mining.

Im going to do a side by side test at home- I ordered a Ryzen 8 core barebones system, Im going to measure RAC per Watt on the power hungry machine.

I found these highly efficient relatively inexpensive machines on ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ZOTAC-C-Series-ZBOX-CI327-NANO-Palm-Sized-Passive-Cooled-Mini-PC-Intel-N3450-Q/292139099729?epid=18003069933&hash=item4404d8e651:g:lCgAAOSw63FZ8JKk

These Zotacs pull between 30-40 watts, they use a laptop power supply.  They are about 1.8 ghz and quad core.  Im going to order one and measure Rosetta RAC per watt on this thing as Reference machine 2.  (It would be neat to have a solar powered zotac).  I remember finding a mini laptop a few years back that only consumed about 6 watts - that would be the ideal solar powered laptop... Its RAC per watt is probably 10* the zotac and 100* the ryzen.  The dell mini laptop and acer mini I think pulled about 10 watts or less.  Would be great for a solar project.  Run the wires in the house and you can set it up on your kitchen table and tell your guests its completely power free and generating income... lol...





  • Rob Andrews
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    • June 05, 2017, 08:09:04 pm
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From my side it seems it's working as expected, I get some payments although I can't evaluate whether they are correct or not-

I got 8 payments of 841 tBBP yesterday and 3 of 16259 tBBP each today.

{
  "Command": "getboincinfo",
  "CPID": "xxxxx",
  "Address": "yWKX5CXuPCJNLLSwUjqwQcUifnYToco1zM",
  "CPIDS": "xxxxx;",
  "CPID-Age (hours)": 421879,
  "NextSuperblockHeight": 11286,
  "xxxxx_RAC": 451.65,
  "Total_RAC": 451.65,
  "Last Superblock Height": 11187,
  "Last Superblock Payment": 16259,
  "Magnitude": 1.066411856725854
}

I hope this info is useful


I just wanted to mention FYI:  You don't need to hide your CPID as it is public (its equivalent to your BBP public receiving address), as this CPID will get pulled around the world and pushed into all the boinc aggregator credit sites (such as team stats, boincstats, etc), and if you want to stay anonymous, you will need to create a Rosetta account using anonymous Username, city, etc, then when people click on your CPID they will only tie you to an anonymous user.

Anyway looks like your mag is showing as 1.06 for 451 rac with a payment of 16259 out of a budget of 10921680, yes that looks correct.  Magnitude is equivalent to your share of the pie * 1000.