Bible Pay

Governance => Archived Proposals => Topic started by: jmmc on August 21, 2018, 05:57:45 am

Title: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: jmmc on August 21, 2018, 05:57:45 am
GIN is a few-clicks platform for hosting masternodes already supporting tens of of various MN projects.

Listing fee is 300 GIN (300 GIN = 0.2 BTC = 1.9M BBP no proposal (depending on price, rest will be sent back to BBP foundation).

Having BBP on this platform would take BBP MN on another level and reach much greater MN investors audience. It's also very handy platform for MN owners who don't want to bother with things like VPS configuration and node maintenance.

Feel free to ask further questions if you have any.

Links:
https://gincoin.io/
https://p.gincoin.io
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: 616westwarmoth on August 21, 2018, 10:57:37 am
It appears the users are changed 50c per day for hosting, if I'm reading this correctly, this is a terrible deal for them and I'd recommend against it.
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: jmmc on August 21, 2018, 12:12:29 pm
It appears the users are changed 50c per day for hosting, if I'm reading this correctly, this is a terrible deal for them and I'd recommend against it.
It was always 50c per day for hosting (and support - upgrades, monitoring, etc.). It's fair price imho and over 4,000 hosted masternodes there speak quite aloud for it.
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: 616westwarmoth on August 21, 2018, 12:18:33 pm
Ok, the cost of $14/month for users seems pretty high to me given you can run the Sanctuary on a $5 Vultr VPS (or really on much cheaper VPS too).   it worth noting that nearly half of their hosted MN are Gin coin nodes, but its an interesting idea nonetheless!
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: jmmc on August 21, 2018, 12:30:02 pm
Ok, the cost of $14/month for users seems pretty high to me given you can run the Sanctuary on a $5 Vultr VPS (or really on much cheaper VPS too).   it worth noting that nearly half of their hosted MN are Gin coin nodes, but its an interesting idea nonetheless!
Yeah, these are quite common arguments. Bottom line is that serious MN holders don't care that much for those additional 10$ they spent on GIN platform per month per node because they save lot of time that is worth much more than that and they have all their supported MNs under one roof (seeing immediate status, reports, etc.) and knowing that someone takes care about their MN nodes. And that's quite priceless. It's like taking a taxi vs driving (and maintaining) your own car. This taxi is actually pretty cheap.
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: jaapgvk on August 22, 2018, 10:45:32 am
Yeah, these are quite common arguments. Bottom line is that serious MN holders don't care that much for those additional 10$ they spent on GIN platform per month per node because they save lot of time that is worth much more than that and they have all their supported MNs under one roof (seeing immediate status, reports, etc.) and knowing that someone takes care about their MN nodes. And that's quite priceless. It's like taking a taxi vs driving (and maintaining) your own car. This taxi is actually pretty cheap.

So, if a masternode crashes of forks or whatever, they will notice this and fix it for their users? Because guaranteed uptime would indeed be a pretty sweet deal for some users I think.
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: jmmc on August 22, 2018, 01:01:45 pm
So, if a masternode crashes of forks or whatever, they will notice this and fix it for their users? Because guaranteed uptime would indeed be a pretty sweet deal for some users I think.
Yes, exactly, they do all the server work. You only need to take care of the controller wallet actions when needed.
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: jmmc on August 22, 2018, 01:11:43 pm
BTW I created proposal in the wallet but it's not shown in the proposal list. How many confirmations are needed before it's there?
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: togoshigekata on August 22, 2018, 10:42:44 pm
What other services are out there that are competing in the same space as GIN? How does GIN compare?

I think it would be cheap to buy enough coins for a low cost masternode and test out the GIN platform

=

https://gincoin.io/#about

- "One-click 3rd party blockchain masternode setup"
- "Masternode setup & administration UI"

In Development:
- "Shared masternodes UI"

=

White Paper:
https://gincoin.io/whitepaper.pdf

"GINcoin aims to solve two big issues that are currently
holding Masternode coins back and impeding their
rightful ascent:

1. Deploying and running a Masternode requires
significant technology know-how:
a. Deep understanding of the blockchain
b. Launching & maintaining a server
c. Setting up of masternode software

2. Setting up a Masternode requires considerable financial efforts (and, as detailed below, trust)
The two problems force investors to rely on Shared Masternode groups and schemes, usually lead by a
developer willing to do the work in exchange for a share of the Masternode (or its generated rewards).
This forces a trustless-system to work in a trust-dependent way, and not few are the cases where
ill-intentioned individuals scam investors and keep the collateral for themselves."
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: jmmc on August 24, 2018, 01:52:56 am
I created the proposal, paid 2500, txn is confirmed but unfortunately it doesn't show in proposal list so it seems there might be a bug and proposal is somehow broken  (txn: 20f0dbcdef42f50eaac0ef3b878865d7fffd5828024e3da88dbb7f16b8a802c7 ). So if anyone of you can create valid proposal, feel free to do so.
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: jaapgvk on August 24, 2018, 11:23:34 am
I created the proposal, paid 2500, txn is confirmed but unfortunately it doesn't show in proposal list so it seems there might be a bug and proposal is somehow broken  (txn: 20f0dbcdef42f50eaac0ef3b878865d7fffd5828024e3da88dbb7f16b8a802c7 ). So if anyone of you can create valid proposal, feel free to do so.

I do not see the proposal in my wallet. I think it's best if you contact Rob at [email protected]
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: jmmc on August 26, 2018, 02:45:53 pm
Thanks to Rob, I was able to create the proposal again, successfully this time. All sanctuary owners are free to vote.
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: 616westwarmoth on August 26, 2018, 04:47:42 pm
Glad to hear the issue was fixed!

What if we started a similar service but exclusively for BBP?  What would that cost us?  The issue would be coding a front end (as a person who manually runs a pooled Sanctuary, I can tell you that is the one thing that takes much time).  But it would give us 1) room to expand to other masternode coins hosted (since you can run four to seven normal MN coins on one $5 server...or less expensive options are out there too).

Coders, how hard would this be?   Because I can say with 100% certainty, that for $14/month/sanctuary I'd be all for running this system for us, in fact would be all for running it for less cost for users!  Maintaining multiple sanctuaries is pretty trivial after the first one, much of the updates can be semi automated (command driven).  Being able to do this for our own coin would give us room to grow for other alt-coins and be something that would be outside the core mission of the coin but complementary like BBPPool is. 

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: jmmc on August 27, 2018, 04:56:45 am
GIN have of experienced developers just for this service maintenance, support and future development and platform is  already working very well. It supports about 70 MN projects already and growing. Also bringing shared masternodes feature soon. It would be very difficult to compete, definitely for 14 USD/month. Maybe for half price if you can bring low-cost usable platform. Moreover there are some other services similar to GIN (not as good) so it's quite competitive environment already meaning that it's harder to succeed. In summary this is imho not a good way to go for BBP. Listing on GIN platform makes much more sense to me and will help BBP in multiple directions. 
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: sunk818 on August 27, 2018, 10:15:47 am
I can rent a reliable VPS for $1/mo. See lowendbox or lowendtalk. DIY is certainly less expensive route, but maybe for financial types that don't want to deal with the technical aspects (just want payout to wallet), its not a bad idea. If we do something in-house, then we could charge a fee but receive it as BBP and sent it all to donation for charities. This will be a marketing advantage because revenue is not for profit and goes to charity.   Whatever direction is taken, this would open a new marketing angle to churches where they set up a recurring donation vehicle. You could support compassion ongoing with the payouts from the masternode (sanctuary).
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: 616westwarmoth on August 27, 2018, 12:12:39 pm
I'm not disagreeing with anything...just some more thoughts.

Gin has a huge platform but really half their traffic it their own coin and a few other fairly cheap coins.   So, right now we've got 309 MN (they have close to 2000).   But they certainly have utility built into their token.  And the shared MN idea is a good one, but not implemented yet.

I've said time and time again, I'll help anyone set up a MN, I've helped 3 other people so far.  Right now there are enough people willing to help that, again to me, spending on a service that is likely to only be used by a few MN isn't worth it at this point.

But to continue the thought, how do we do something (even if it's not just hosting our own MN as a service) to improve the utility of our coin?

Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: znffal on August 27, 2018, 08:41:39 pm
I like the idea, but the timing is off in my opinion.
Right now we have a full monthly budget and this would push us over budget. With our low price we are struggling to pay our charity expenses.
I'd be open to this in the future when the market recovers (same for your other proposal MCT+)
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: jmmc on August 28, 2018, 07:39:09 am
VPS for 1$ sounds almost unbelievable. If the spec if enough for MN then it's really something to think about.
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: jmmc on August 28, 2018, 08:19:14 am
I understand that BBP price and budget is tight but BBP needs to be expanding and be visible to various platforms to keep pace. To be on GIN is imho more significant than be listed on CoinExchange.IO which is just another (not very significant) exchange. BBP doesn't need to be on more small exchanges but there should be complete ecosystem around BBP in terms of various services and uses cases. It means:

1) small exchanges(5) : SouthXchange, C-CEX, CryptoBridge, CoinExchange, QIEX
- DONE (not one of them is in TOP100 exchanges), no need to invest in this area even single BBP in the future imho
2) MN hosting platforms(0): this is where GIN goes (and you can already vote for it)
3) Alt P2P / escrow platforms(0): this is where MCT+ goes (you can also already vote for it)
4) payment processor(0): like bitpay, coinbase, etc. (beyond BBP size budget right now)
5) big exchanges(0): like bitfinex, binance (TOP10 exchanges - that's beyond BBP size and budget right now)

You see, BBP has 5 small exchanges but nothing else from this list. That's why I believe we need to leave any effort to list another small exchanges but to focus on other types of platforms where BBP is yet missing. Big exchanges and payment processors are currently beyond BBP budget. What we can do now is to make BBP present on MN hosting platform (like GIN) and P2P escrow trading alt platform (like MCT+) for decent money. That would mean to have 3 of 5 ecosystem groups covered plus bringing additional exposure and PR to BBP.

Whoever wants to build special BBP hosting platform, feel free to do it but it imho doesn't substitute being listed on GIN. It would be similar effort like to build your own exchange and thinking that is the same like to be listed on Binance. It's not.
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: znffal on August 28, 2018, 05:06:28 pm
I understand that BBP price and budget is tight but BBP needs to be expanding and be visible to various platforms to keep pace. To be on GIN is imho more significant than be listed on CoinExchange.IO which is just another (not very significant) exchange. BBP doesn't need to be on more small exchanges but there should be complete ecosystem around BBP in terms of various services and uses cases. It means:

1) small exchanges(5) : SouthXchange, C-CEX, CryptoBridge, CoinExchange, QIEX
- DONE (not one of them is in TOP100 exchanges), no need to invest in this area even single BBP in the future imho
2) MN hosting platforms(0): this is where GIN goes (and you can already vote for it)
3) Alt P2P / escrow platforms(0): this is where MCT+ goes (you can also already vote for it)
4) payment processor(0): like bitpay, coinbase, etc. (beyond BBP size budget right now)
5) big exchanges(0): like bitfinex, binance (TOP10 exchanges - that's beyond BBP size and budget right now)

You see, BBP has 5 small exchanges but nothing else from this list. That's why I believe we need to leave any effort to list another small exchanges but to focus on other types of platforms where BBP is yet missing. Big exchanges and payment processors are currently beyond BBP budget. What we can do now is to make BBP present on MN hosting platform (like GIN) and P2P escrow trading alt platform (like MCT+) for decent money. That would mean to have 3 of 5 ecosystem groups covered plus bringing additional exposure and PR to BBP.

Whoever wants to build special BBP hosting platform, feel free to do it but it imho doesn't substitute being listed on GIN. It would be similar effort like to build your own exchange and thinking that is the same like to be listed on Binance. It's not.

I'm not disagreeing, I'm just saying there was no budget for it this month.
Hopefully the market can recover soon and things like this can be moved forward
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: jmmc on August 29, 2018, 03:07:26 am
I'm not disagreeing, I'm just saying there was no budget for it this month.
Hopefully the market can recover soon and things like this can be moved forward
Although I agree with that, investment into project and ecosystem so project can grow is necessary, though. Without that, resources for charity might dry to zero in no time as well.
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: sunk818 on August 29, 2018, 04:24:01 pm
Although I agree with that, investment into project and ecosystem so project can grow is necessary, though. Without that, resources for charity might dry to zero in no time as well.

Its a bear market for everyone since BTC price is down. I do agree BBP liquidation potentially causes more downward pressure especially if the buy orders are not there to balance it out.
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: 616westwarmoth on August 29, 2018, 06:42:08 pm
I understand that BBP price and budget is tight but BBP needs to be expanding and be visible to various platforms to keep pace. To be on GIN is imho more significant than be listed on CoinExchange.IO which is just another (not very significant) exchange. BBP doesn't need to be on more small exchanges but there should be complete ecosystem around BBP in terms of various services and uses cases. It means:

1) small exchanges(5) : SouthXchange, C-CEX, CryptoBridge, CoinExchange, QIEX
- DONE (not one of them is in TOP100 exchanges), no need to invest in this area even single BBP in the future imho
2) MN hosting platforms(0): this is where GIN goes (and you can already vote for it)
3) Alt P2P / escrow platforms(0): this is where MCT+ goes (you can also already vote for it)
4) payment processor(0): like bitpay, coinbase, etc. (beyond BBP size budget right now)
5) big exchanges(0): like bitfinex, binance (TOP10 exchanges - that's beyond BBP size and budget right now)

You see, BBP has 5 small exchanges but nothing else from this list. That's why I believe we need to leave any effort to list another small exchanges but to focus on other types of platforms where BBP is yet missing. Big exchanges and payment processors are currently beyond BBP budget. What we can do now is to make BBP present on MN hosting platform (like GIN) and P2P escrow trading alt platform (like MCT+) for decent money. That would mean to have 3 of 5 ecosystem groups covered plus bringing additional exposure and PR to BBP.

Whoever wants to build special BBP hosting platform, feel free to do it but it imho doesn't substitute being listed on GIN. It would be similar effort like to build your own exchange and thinking that is the same like to be listed on Binance. It's not.

I generally agree with your assessments, although I would say we've not seen much request for MN hosting or P2P escrow.  I'm pretty sure that anyone wanting to start a MN that has issues would not be more helped by something like Gin than the community.  P2P escrow I've never understood the need for when you have reliable markets...for coins that have no markets, yes, but to me P2P escrow is not a high priority.

I firmly agree we don't need any more exchanges at this point, unless we can luck into a top 25 one.  But to me, Gin is not providing a service that our users are clamoring for, MCT+ is not providing a service that is needed if we have reliable markets, and given the budget at this point, either proposal amounts to very expensive advertising.
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: jmmc on August 30, 2018, 03:57:03 am
Sure I agree what you write, it is as valid view as any other.

I can give you one one example where MCT+ might be handy right now. In current market situation we could use MCT+ to perform secure private Sanctuary sales to some investors without collapsing the market on usual exchanges (where market is already in a pretty bad shape). That's just one case where MCT+ might be very helpful imho. In the past I was doing some p2p trades and it was always pretty poor ad risky experience.  I would be super happy to have MCT+ available at that time.

Second common use case is diversification between various MN holders. MN generates some coin and you often want some other MN to diversify portfolio. Of course you can buy it on usual exchange, but why to trade it through BTC when you don't want BTC but some target coin for another masternode. In this case p2p alt platform is perfect place.

Related to GIN, the day one BBP is supported there I will migrate my sanctuaries there and even acquire some more. Before that I'm not planning to get more sanctuaries and in terms of other MN projects as long as these projects are not support on GIN platform they are like non-existing form me as an investor (entirely due to  practical reasons even though I'm a technical guy and have no problem with VPS administration and things like that in general).
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: Rob Andrews on September 19, 2018, 03:41:35 am
I think we need to look past the price of $14 on this one, and have a hosted service (like GIN) available in our arsenal for the Non Technical users.

I see we have the same sort of arguments in this thread repeating (people with closed minds who view things one way).  We need to start thinking out of the box, and thinking of newbies.

(A technical minded entrepeneur may go out and start their own version of Gin and charge $1 a month and see if you can live on that, but it may go out of business).

I support this proposal, but our budget is too small this month.

Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: jaapgvk on September 19, 2018, 09:39:02 am
I also like this proposal :)
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: jmmc on September 20, 2018, 12:23:41 pm
I have good news - BiblePay was just listed on Gin platform so we can save some listing budget here.
Feel free to host BiblePay Sanctuaries on GIN if you like - https://p.gincoin.io/#!/
Title: Re: Proposal - listing BBP on GIN MN platform
Post by: jmmc on November 07, 2018, 10:50:34 am
One more update about BBP sanctuaries hosted on GIN platform. To those who considered GIN hosting price way too high there is new cheap cloud node possibility to host BBP sanctuary for $4.5 per MN/month (select Cloud node for this price).  It's no-brainer now for this price IMHO. Check - https://p.gincoin.io/ .