Messages

3661

TestNet Discussion Archive / Re: BIBLEPAY -TESTNET TESTING THREAD-Proof-Of-Distributed-Computing(Cancer Research)

« on: February 17, 2018, 10:05:18 AM »

I'm happy to read about the latest implementation which ads the 'biblepay team' requirement. I already read Wests post, but I didn't find the space in myself to react till now.

I like the saying: "If you build it, they will come." And if we have a well thought out 'product' (I don't know better word at this time), I think people who's ideals align with those of Biblepay and happen to stumble upon us, will probably stick around.

Another thing I just wanted to say: I'm still positive about this project. What makes me uncomfortable from time to time though, is the - in my opinion - well meaning people leaving this project in discontent. There are a lot of variables at play here, so I want to stay as neutral as possible (people are people, and they act like people, as they have done for millennia). But I would personally would feel more comfortable in this community if there would be a bit more room for everyone's views, even if they don't align with the route this project is taking. But that's just my view

I'm glad you like the team requirement.

I'm not sure if you are referring to me, for not being patient enough to deal with some naysayers about this project or if you are referring to the people who left the project because they couldnt stand my response.

I'll tell you specifically what Im not going to tolerate in either of the forums (I could care less what people post outside of the BTCTalk/Forum.biblepay.org).   Any single individual who makes inaccurate and strong statements - such as "this is this way" and "this will do this" but is actually of an individual opinion (of one who may not even own a single sanctuary), where part or all of the content is questionable or not true.  And in that case No, they do NOT have the best interests in mind for this project.  Burito has a hidden agenda, and others who have left made the mistake of not being careful enough to raise concerns the correct polite way and admit they have no clue what they are talking about.  I have patience for those people, but I dont have patience for people who are ultimately destroying us and the old ladies investments because they singlehandedly feel they are the cross section of BBP.  Anyone can enter a proposal for 2500 BBP and create a soap box for change and let the sancs vote where the money is.

3662

TestNet Discussion Archive / Re: BIBLEPAY -TESTNET TESTING THREAD-Proof-Of-Distributed-Computing(Cancer Research)

« on: February 17, 2018, 07:18:48 AM »

One request that I would like to see considered.  Require team Biblepay to receive rewards.

Currently, we are open to exploit by a botnet.  Its believed we are losing a large and measurable percentage to botnet(s) and it's not inconceivable it could exceed 50% with little difficulty, since this is what Monero, the hybrid CPU/GPU coin is suspected to be at.

Right now, Team Biblepay is 76th, with RAC of 30K, the top team is Team Gridcoin with 4.8M RAC.  I understand the desire to reach out and open the door for more users, but I worry that the current proposal of allowing anyone to receive rewards regardless of team, allows for Gridcoin users to effectively get credit at Gridcoin as well as at Biblepay for no more work (since they can be Team Gridcoin for Gridcoin rewards, and use just their user Account Key to get BBP).  Since Gridcoin users are on some level participating in R@h for Cryptocurrency rewards, it seems reasonable to think many, if not most, will gravitate to BBP since they can buy 1 BBP to receive rewards.  If, and I say IF, they are there solely for the reward and we cannot minister to them, then they are no better to our core users than the botnet.  If we reached the 1% ranking, we'd have roughly 100K RAC, if 25% of the Gridcoin users started with BBP, they'd have 1M RAC, and so if we could not convert them as genuine users, we'd be back to a 10% - 90% split with the majority of the coins going to people outside our user base.  Additionally, by not requiring team Biblepay membership, we lose a valuable asset which is the PR benefit from the overall ranking on R@h which could very easily be top 10 to maybe top 5 in a very short period of time.  Because without requiring to be a part of team Biblepay, most of our users I believe will end up on team Gridcoin as that would make the most financial sense.

I believe the goal to move to PoDC is a good one.  This particular piece of the puzzle however, I am concerned about and think needs addressed before the implementation.

In the end, the question to me boils down to, are there many R@h users we can reach out to that would not join us if they had to leave their current teams.  If so, can we reach more users with our own higher ranking team?

Yes, you have valid concerns.  I have always actually been on the side of the fence where the least the researcher can do is join the team in order to receive rewards.  I have held Rob Halfords perspective on double dipping, back when Ripple offered a chance to receive Ripple rewards for boinc users, if they crunch a certain project- at that time one of the same projects Gridcoin users crunched.  The rule in Gridcoin was those users must be within the team in order to receive rewards, and that prevented double rewards from both Ripple and Gridcoin.

However I saw a lot of scalability arguments against the team requirement and I guess I originally thought, hey lets solve that problem with Biblepay!  Lets make a feature where we have unlimited scalability and open the door to the massive Boinc Userbase (of over 1 million accounts).  So, under the hood Biblepay is now prepared for that.  We can literally handle the entire Boinc userbase if necessary (it requires us to increment a flag to send out multiple superblock payments per day, but we dont have to monkey with that feature until we have more than 32767 researchers on board).

But honing in on this issue Ive actually always been on the side of the fence where a miner should provide some value for us, and with that, they receive rewards, and have more of a propensity to buy and hold BBP for the long term - and be a loyal user (in contrast to a miner who comes and uses us, and pumps n dumps the coin).

So, in light of that view, I think we need to support requiring the team in order to mine biblepay.  We still support unlimited users, but the user must jump in and modify the team from the Rosetta account and join our team to receive rewards.

This way, when we go live, we will not only eliminate the botnet, but we will only have loyal users pulling slices of the BBP pie per day.  This will allow us to grow slowly in an organic Christian way, we can reach out to small swaths at a time and promote Christian values and see if we scare them away.

Great idea, Im going to add two features to the core client:
1) A system wide spork, to hold the Team Required Value (our team=15044 btw, Biblepay).
2) If the spork is active, PODC payments require Team Biblepay
3) The SanctuaryQuorum will be modified to log the users team in the contract
4) The exec getboincinfo will be modified to display the team, and display a corresponding warning if the team is required, enabled, and the user is not part of the team:  Warning - This CPID is not part of team Biblepay - This CPID is not receiving rewards for research work

Etc

We will need everyone to upgrade to test this.


Client will be ready in 2 hours.

3663

TestNet Discussion Archive / Re: BIBLEPAY -TESTNET TESTING THREAD-Proof-Of-Distributed-Computing(Cancer Research)

« on: February 16, 2018, 04:41:02 PM »

ok. I must check the settings and find it... But maybe it doesnt matter anymore, because all my VPS are ending today
So I will be without any "external help"...
My only 24/7 device will be my old Nexus 4 and maybe this will be interresting for you Rob.
It is old phone, comparable to nowaday mid range.

I test it for 2 days now. There were some problems on beginning and I've found that I need to use only 2 of 4 cores to run it properly.
After two days: Total credit   1015 ; Average credit   89.93
https://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/results.php?hostid=3352819

Good to know dude.

3664

TestNet Discussion Archive / Re: BIBLEPAY -TESTNET TESTING THREAD-Proof-Of-Distributed-Computing(Cancer Research)

« on: February 16, 2018, 04:38:45 PM »

I run a popular videogame server on a dedicated machine I rent, and it only uses 20-25% of the CPU,
I wanted to run Rosetta alongside it without interfering with the game's CPU, I looked into CPU Affinity for BOINC and there are no options for it,
But on Windows I was able to go into Task Manager >>> Details >> Right Click  boinc.exe and boincmgr.exe >>> Set Affinity
And I was able to set which CPU Cores these should use, after that I added the Rosetta Project, and the Rosetta Tasks created only used those cores 
If the computer restarts the affinity settings will get reset, but I only restart the machine every 2-3 months or so LOL
Its probably possible to write a .bat file to set the affinity, but eh, works good enough for me so far

Rob is there anything else you need tested? Ive just been dabbling with BOINC and getting it setup everywhere I can.
Sounds like testing has so far gone very well

===

Also yeah once PODC is released will be nice to advertise/market BiblePay to users of BOINC, Rosetta, Gridcoin, Curecoin, Foldingcoin, Mediccoin, etc

We can look at how Gridcoin is advertising:
https://cryptocurrencytalk.com/topic/48655-boincstats-advertising/
https://steemit.com/gridcoin/@vortac/gridcoin-advertsing-2-expanding-our-google-adwords-budget
https://www.reddit.com/r/gridcoin/comments/4oy9w5/new_advertising_campaign_on_boincstatscom/

Looks like Banner ad on BoincStats is 300 Euros? so $370? How long does it stay up?

Id love to start playing with Google Adwords

I think most of the ad-sites will negotiate a deal, and sometimes offer a discount for quarterly over monthly.  Im not sure of the term for $370 but its probably a monthly quote.  Yeah, we should definitely look into PR budget for that.

On testing, Ive got the larger Private Send denominations in the next version, the exec leaderboard, and I havent changed max sigs yet for Instantsend, waiting on feedback to see if we need to.

Let me think about more testing ideas, right now I think we have covered the bases.

Regarding one potential feature for the integrity idea, I was thinking, if there is a way to concentrate and anonymize all cancer tasks, for example if we gave the job to the sanctuaries to issue cancer tasks, and those sancs monitored return traffic for anonymous validation, maybe we could "certify" the rosetta traffic that way.  Another words, only issue paid traffic if it flows through a sanctuary.  If we were able to monitor the traffic from a sanc, we could tally the workunits issued and validated, and the duration, and prove that those workunits were indeed solved - but I think for this idea to work, the workunits need anonymized, and more than one sig would be required on the validated work... Very tricky stuff... (It proves that workunit XYZ was submitted at timestamp 12345 and validated by Rosetta without rosetta knowing the CPID, and then validated back in Biblepay for workunit XYZ for duration ZZZ).

3665

TestNet Discussion Archive / Re: BIBLEPAY -TESTNET TESTING THREAD-Proof-Of-Distributed-Computing(Cancer Research)

« on: February 16, 2018, 04:04:36 PM »

why missing nicks in leaderboard?    thanks

me, orbis etc

You are in there - but the problem with Orbis is his computers are hidden.  Orbis you have to unhide computers to be in the leaderboard.

3666

TestNet Discussion Archive / Re: BIBLEPAY -TESTNET TESTING THREAD-Proof-Of-Distributed-Computing(Cancer Research)

« on: February 16, 2018, 08:54:21 AM »

08:52:59

exec leaderboard


08:52:59

{
  "Leaderboard Report": 1518792787,
  "Height": 11484,
  "Total Block": 1365199,
  "93138f032bdd027fa3246b48bb715a77": 167.4210121204234,
  "4004b7fec94751f61fe9135977bac553": 150.9508859078355,
  "c9085154b7cc0ca2b5189672559dd6d8": 98.73066052106205,
  "8735cfe64d964416dba6015eb414cf7e": 94.17015325846157,
  "7c9264559fef3c1c689ee9fc3ff42494": 66.62984614968333,
  "8f273b30f8e0a298ed26e242762df701": 51.81002878107859,
  "e7ae6abd6284b05f3fd5f7c780e60bc7": 45.15019389004685,
  "d9b22fccfae5582d4ee7838883aaa3cf": 42.22021813508347,
  "6cf45c3b54ef7c08d15838446a98ef24": 41.56024109627797,
  "1e7184e17377549d5a7d7a2edfb51017": 39.35982930430048,
  "dde30f3ef57ed2df69ecbc687db75e46": 34.20966442101361,
  "6785ded1f65063ef8f01f42deb31cf1d": 27.37989093619398,
  "ca895b47aacffbdbf906201821af2f9f": 24.15984758148924,
  "4fd1bf6c6900d92b226e16c6a6935661": 20.03004675486836,
  "04fba56d89a5eb38b1b82f8a6240132c": 19.77001140661536,
  "e94c1704c75f731f8bfde303f08408ee": 17.16965792408537,
  "96892ec0fc8a2710fa84f26c9c84cd3e": 11.90961894998737,
  "71f1f1f46deb2f25961c7d9af06f2b31": 9.689429821663875,
  "e7c056024cd3b781edd5af37965c652c": 8.910056270843619,
  "95a79cd5829e8315b0b946709930df18": 8.759895013401746,
  "f80ab050ab53459ec937879a046d603e": 6.219606033848502,
  "84d803e4d82d3bdcdf8e2ab601e93e20": 5.769854755461624,
  "cc37d0ef74a621379974484f43d3b1c5": 5.079845465167748,
  "fe553a955f0e21d46724858870014cbe": 2.939498176167004
}


This report shows the descending magnitude from the last superblock, and the CPIDs.  You can see our magnitudes always add up to 1000.

3667

TestNet Discussion Archive / Re: BIBLEPAY -TESTNET TESTING THREAD-Proof-Of-Distributed-Computing(Cancer Research)

« on: February 16, 2018, 08:40:04 AM »

Update on the PODC project:

I have not found any new bugs.  The CPID signature rule seems to be working correctly.
The chain is syncing from zero correctly.  The quorum votes are behaving correctly.
The headless version is filtering the files correctly.
Any concerns or feature requests?

Last night I added an in-wallet leaderboard (exec leaderboard).  It shows CPID, Magnitude by magnitude descending.
Im holding off to check it in until we team it up with another change.

So far, this looks very promising for Prod on March 15th....

EDIT: I also added two reports to the pool:  Once per day, we gather the data.  Rosetta Machine Leaderboard and Rosetta Project Leaderboard.
Its gleaning the data from the Biblepay team, so if you arent in the team the leaderboard misses you. 

(We still allow Rosetta crunchers outside of the team, to receive compensation and this is for future PR.  Im envisioning that we make a post in the
 Rosetta forums eventually and invite those users over.  Or pay for a banner ad out of our PR budget on the boincstats site.  (There are some veteran Rosetta crunchers with billions of credits who belong to a certain team - so they may not want to drop their team - but if they are not required to, they may join us and become part of our community - and be part of our community in other ways).

3668

TestNet Discussion Archive / Re: BIBLEPAY -TESTNET TESTING THREAD-Proof-Of-Distributed-Computing(Cancer Research)

« on: February 16, 2018, 08:34:49 AM »

From my side it seems it's working as expected, I get some payments although I can't evaluate whether they are correct or not-

I got 8 payments of 841 tBBP yesterday and 3 of 16259 tBBP each today.

{
  "Command": "getboincinfo",
  "CPID": "xxxxx",
  "Address": "yWKX5CXuPCJNLLSwUjqwQcUifnYToco1zM",
  "CPIDS": "xxxxx;",
  "CPID-Age (hours)": 421879,
  "NextSuperblockHeight": 11286,
  "xxxxx_RAC": 451.65,
  "Total_RAC": 451.65,
  "Last Superblock Height": 11187,
  "Last Superblock Payment": 16259,
  "Magnitude": 1.066411856725854
}

I hope this info is useful

I just wanted to mention FYI:  You don't need to hide your CPID as it is public (its equivalent to your BBP public receiving address), as this CPID will get pulled around the world and pushed into all the boinc aggregator credit sites (such as team stats, boincstats, etc), and if you want to stay anonymous, you will need to create a Rosetta account using anonymous Username, city, etc, then when people click on your CPID they will only tie you to an anonymous user.

Anyway looks like your mag is showing as 1.06 for 451 rac with a payment of 16259 out of a budget of 10921680, yes that looks correct.  Magnitude is equivalent to your share of the pie * 1000.

3669

TestNet Discussion Archive / Re: BIBLEPAY -TESTNET TESTING THREAD-Proof-Of-Distributed-Computing(Cancer Research)

« on: February 16, 2018, 08:06:36 AM »

I erased Ubuntu Server with Lubuntu and replaced with Ubuntu, (I am not a fan of Lubuntu now LOL)
I downloaded Ubuntu ISO and put it on a flash drive with program called Rufus (on Windows), and booted from the flash drive to install Ubuntu

After Installing BOINC, The BOINC Manager didnt have a menu, had to use SHIFT + ALT + A to switch to Advanced View,
then I read that you have to full screen the program to see the Menu, which worked, weird

I read in Rosetta forums that average Rosetta Work Unit (Task?) needs 0.5 GB RAM, not sure if its true, I was worried that was my issue of why I was seeing less tasks running, but I think I just had general issues with Lubuntu LOL, I bought another stick of RAM just in case since the machine in question only has 4GB RAM.

The Options >> Computing Preferences is actually really nice, much more functionality than just setting number of mining threads like in POW

Also my significant other has enjoyed seeing the proteins folding in the screensaver and is now okay with BOINC being installed on her PC (whereas earlier with POW she was against BiblePay being mined on her PC LOL)

I haven't been mining BiblePay for over a month or two, but this Rosetta@home stuff is really cool and has me back in, Im even tempted to get another PC for it!

Thats a cool story!  Yes I like how the competition "feels good" compared to mining.

Im going to do a side by side test at home- I ordered a Ryzen 8 core barebones system, Im going to measure RAC per Watt on the power hungry machine.

I found these highly efficient relatively inexpensive machines on ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ZOTAC-C-Series-ZBOX-CI327-NANO-Palm-Sized-Passive-Cooled-Mini-PC-Intel-N3450-Q/292139099729?epid=18003069933&hash=item4404d8e651:g:lCgAAOSw63FZ8JKk

These Zotacs pull between 30-40 watts, they use a laptop power supply.  They are about 1.8 ghz and quad core.  Im going to order one and measure Rosetta RAC per watt on this thing as Reference machine 2.  (It would be neat to have a solar powered zotac).  I remember finding a mini laptop a few years back that only consumed about 6 watts - that would be the ideal solar powered laptop... Its RAC per watt is probably 10* the zotac and 100* the ryzen.  The dell mini laptop and acer mini I think pulled about 10 watts or less.  Would be great for a solar project.  Run the wires in the house and you can set it up on your kitchen table and tell your guests its completely power free and generating income... lol...

3670

TestNet Discussion Archive / Re: BIBLEPAY -TESTNET TESTING THREAD-Proof-Of-Distributed-Computing(Cancer Research)

« on: February 15, 2018, 08:03:24 AM »

I think the Windows wallet is still mining as 'strong' as ever. On a 4-core  4-thread system, when I use 'setgenerate true 1', the wallet uses about 25% of the cpu-power (as it's always been). On my Linux testrig, it's way less since the latest updates.

I read somewhere in the thread that 'setgenerate true 1' should create a lot less hashpower than before (1% of what it would be previously?). So on Linux it seems to be working, but on Windows I'm not sure.

Both are 1.0.9.1. wallets btw.

Its possible that I built windows on 1091a and it missed the feature.  Ill look into that and let you know when I build the next windows and we can re-test. Thanks for pointing that out.

Nice to know linux is only using 1%.  Thats a very green and nice thing to know, as that means our efficiency just increased massively.

3671

TestNet Discussion Archive / Re: BIBLEPAY -TESTNET TESTING THREAD-Proof-Of-Distributed-Computing(Cancer Research)

« on: February 14, 2018, 10:03:39 PM »

Please see inline:

One concern brought up in Slack was "double dipping" with Gridcoin and Biblepay.  After looking around, it appears that is thankfully not easily done, and may be impossible.

->  We're on different blockchains, so I don't understand what double dipping would be.  If both chains paid for the same research it would influence the global arb rate for that project.  Gridcoin requires the researcher to be on their Boinc team (called team gridcoin, or you dont get paid) while we dont require a team - I did that intentionally so we can market biblepay to all existing Rosetta researchers. (Since we have unlimited scalability now)..


One other thought that did come up on Slack was the reduction in hash power needed to do a 51% attack on PoW.  I'm not saying it is correct, since Gridcoin manages to secure their block chain with just the BOINC hashing.  My question then is would it be possible or practical to take the PoL work and instead of using Coin Age as a hash rate modifier (or difficulty modifier), would it be practical to use the RAC somehow to perform that function?  My thought is it would build upon the PoL work that has been done, might not diminish the number of blocks created by PoW and thus might preserve the high barrier for a 51% attack. 

-> Gridcoin is on POS, were on POW so there is no relationship, they have more of a propensity of a 51% attack by the buying vector, we have more of one from the brute force side (although I say for us- lower than most other coins after the cpid rule is in).  When we move to signed cpids, we have a reduction in hashpower but also a reduction in random unknown hashpower.  That does not increase the chances of a 51% attack it decreases it.   RAC has no relationship to hashpower, so adding RAC would not decrease the liklihood of a 51% attack (a person with high rac does not have high hashpower - we dont know what they have) - although adding a distinct CPID With RAC (which we did, makes it impossible to launch a horizontal cpid attack- thats one where you try to create many cpids- that rule is in testnet now, we require the CPID to be paid in the prior superblock with RAC & magnitude in order to mine).  We still have DGW in place to prevent 51% attacks, so that makes it extremely hard to perform.


The other concern brought up was if there might be a project similar in mission to BOINC but strictly for Christian researchers?  I was unaware of any.  However, it made me ponder the possibilities that some point down the road, if BBP becomes a major force where we sponsor thousands of orphans and do the miraculous, feeding widows and orphans from the virtual proceedings...think about the loaves and the fishes and you see where my mind picks up this as analogous, then perhaps this coin can merit some standing to create a portal for scientists who are Christians and doing Godly research.

->  One could create a boinc project more aligned with Jesus, but I dont know what that would be.  The biggest problem I see with that in contrast to Rosetta: Rosetta has 150 paid scientists on payroll so they are developing an extraordinarily complex program, where a homegrown "new"boinc project probably wouldnt do much, but its certainly worth exploring if someone comes up with a groundbreaking idea.


Just some thoughts on the matter as things move forward.  It's tremendously exciting!

3672

TestNet Discussion Archive / Re: BIBLEPAY -TESTNET TESTING THREAD-Proof-Of-Distributed-Computing(Cancer Research)

« on: February 14, 2018, 04:35:31 PM »

I see, sounds good Rob. If all goes well I'll clone up 9 more nodes tomorrow.

Awesome, lets see if your new getboincinfo looks good now, ie rac numbers came down to be accurate?  I just thought of something, we need a tool to see an in - wallet leaderboard report, like exec leaderboard, so we can see "cpid, magnitde" ranked from top to bottom, that will reveal any strange anomolies also...

3673

TestNet Discussion Archive / Re: BIBLEPAY -TESTNET TESTING THREAD-Proof-Of-Distributed-Computing(Cancer Research)

« on: February 14, 2018, 04:32:31 PM »

I see for example this:
false   14.02.18 18:45   Vy?ažené      yRThhHMA5rQqz5GTp37Ttn2dXajxpjKec8   5910.00000000   ebd77507e4e6aa1d6a2db1bb7d4eb226530255e2a55c05ddc2daf8207241a447-000

Oh yes, I didnt see that one!

That is certainly a rare one.  I looked up the issue on that one and it wont happen in prod.  What happened was masternode winners didnt have enough support for block 9694, so when that block came along you mined the entire budget ( masternode + heat reward) for yourself and the network accepted it.

3674

TestNet Discussion Archive / Re: BIBLEPAY -TESTNET TESTING THREAD-Proof-Of-Distributed-Computing(Cancer Research)

« on: February 14, 2018, 03:39:11 PM »

Yes, I did think you might have wanted the number to be bigger. Yeah, I mentioned I missed the word "share".

I did think of a simple "pie" thing, and its good, dont get me wrong but there was one other consideration other than large numbers.
There is a chance that when biblepay grows, we might make biblepay consider more than one projects RAC, for example 30% from Alzheimers research and 70% from cancer. 

Magnitude is a term I am coining for "consolidated project effectiveness as a researcher" so its slightly different than a pure percent when you consider the possibility of blending two projects together.

I deliberately kept the system simple in that it only works with Rosetta, but PODC is generic in the back end enough to potentially go with more than one blended project in the future.

If that ever happens your magnitude is the single number as a researcher across all biblepay projects.

3675

TestNet Discussion Archive / Re: BIBLEPAY -TESTNET TESTING THREAD-Proof-Of-Distributed-Computing(Cancer Research)

« on: February 14, 2018, 03:36:14 PM »

Yes, I did think you might have wanted the number to be bigger. Yeah, I mentioned I missed the word "share".

Sorry, I just noticed that when I re-read it and deleted my post