Bible Pay

Archives => Archived Proposals => Topic started by: T-Mike on March 27, 2018, 07:59:30 PM

Title: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: T-Mike on March 27, 2018, 07:59:30 PM
Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised

I propose to start a charity commission to take care of all the in and outs of sponsoring children and the filtering of charity organizations. The sanctuaries will have the final say but we will be responsible for the screening process and for providing the Sanctuaries with the information they need to make a decision. Additionally, I propose we start a charity fund where it's purpose is to provide backup funds to the current active charities and support even more people in need. Biblepay does not currently strictly follow the 10% allowance for charities and is allowed to exceed that since it is Biblepay's top priority. However, this leads to under funding of other tasks that are important to the success of the project. In this way, we can support more children while the developers can focus on improving the platform to attract more people to invest in the kingdom of God.

Initial Road-map:
Secure Charity Fund Wallet - 4/31/2018.
Charity Tab on www.biblepay.org - 4/30/2018

Some background on me, I am currently working as an Assistant Program Manager at my company. I have 2 kids and a beautiful wife. I am blessed beyond anything I could ever imagine and want to serve the Lord wherever he pleases. I am still praying if this is where He wants me to be but He has already commanded us this,

Quote
Deuteronomy 15:11 King James Version (KJV)

11 For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.

Proposal Requirement:
Charity tab on Biblepay website.
Donate all leftover budget to charity fund.
Mike as director of the Charity Commission. (If there is someone else you think that is a good candidate for the position, please don't hesitate to mention that person.)



Detailed Information:
1. Securing the wallet: There will always be two people who have access to the fund wallet. Both these people will exchange their address by sending each other their bank statement (minus sensitive information) and phone number. The wallet passphrase will be engraved in metal and stored at a secure location in both locations.

Voting:
Yes: gobject vote-many 99333498383a5a12291bc42a671ec6a4f3904cb447e2b4fcb8275efbb416eb10 funding yes
No: gobject vote-many 99333498383a5a12291bc42a671ec6a4f3904cb447e2b4fcb8275efbb416eb10 funding no

To God be the glory!  -Amen
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: znffal on March 27, 2018, 08:17:04 PM
I like it!
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: 616westwarmoth on March 28, 2018, 12:21:36 AM
Until our current orphans are funded 6 months out, I'm pretty pessimistic on further commitments.  The well being of our currently sponsored children is too important to risk on trying to do a bit more good, when all it would take is a drop in price of BTC back to sub $3k levels to dramatically impact their lives.
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: jaapgvk on March 28, 2018, 02:56:21 AM
Until our current orphans are funded 6 months out, I'm pretty pessimistic on further commitments.  The well being of our currently sponsored children is too important to risk on trying to do a bit more good, when all it would take is a drop in price of BTC back to sub $3k levels to dramatically impact their lives.

Well, since this commission is in effect for the most part a buffer for events like you described (BTC in sub 3k levels), I don't share your pessimism completely.

Besides that, I think that this commission will add value to Biblepay, because it will create more validity for us (having a commission handling the scanning due-diligence on new charities). I think it's great PR.

I do think that until the orphans are funded 6 month out, we should - mostly - use any excess funds in the superblocks. They are excess because they weren't claimed with other proposals, so it's not like things like PR and IT are really missing out. Rob always waits until the last moment to create a proposal for excess funds, so there is plenty of time for others to make proposals.

So, I propose that "Donate all leftover budget to charity fund" should be something more like: "Donate part of the leftover budget to charity fund (until we reach a 6 month pre-payment for compassion), and after that, all of the leftover budget, until a certain threshold, and burn everything above that."

That was a longer sentence than I envisioned, haha!

I want this commission to be a buffer, and not potentially become a superpower, so I want it to own a lot, but not too much BBP. Also, from the investors point of view, this commission could become a 'whale' with the potential to crash the BBP-market, and burning coins will raise the value of the rest of the BBP.

Oh Mike, since I am on of the people working on the new website, could you explain more about the 'Charity tab on Biblepay website' thing?
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: T-Mike on March 28, 2018, 06:57:27 AM
Until our current orphans are funded 6 months out, I'm pretty pessimistic on further commitments.  The well being of our currently sponsored children is too important to risk on trying to do a bit more good, when all it would take is a drop in price of BTC back to sub $3k levels to dramatically impact their lives.

The backup fund is for the current charities, in other words 100% of the funds will go to the charities we currently are supporting. I know right now we are diverting the excess to the charities anyways but I think diverting the excess to the charity fund first is the correct way. Then, we can pay out from the charity fund monthly instead of having to pre-pay in advance.
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: T-Mike on March 28, 2018, 07:52:11 AM
Well, since this commission is in effect for the most part a buffer for events like you described (BTC in sub 3k levels), I don't share your pessimism completely.

Besides that, I think that this commission will add value to Biblepay, because it will create more validity for us (having a commission handling the scanning due-diligence on new charities). I think it's great PR.

I do think that until the orphans are funded 6 month out, we should - mostly - use any excess funds in the superblocks. They are excess because they weren't claimed with other proposals, so it's not like things like PR and IT are really missing out. Rob always waits until the last moment to create a proposal for excess funds, so there is plenty of time for others to make proposals.

So, I propose that "Donate all leftover budget to charity fund" should be something more like: "Donate part of the leftover budget to charity fund (until we reach a 6 month pre-payment for compassion), and after that, all of the leftover budget, until a certain threshold, and burn everything above that."

That was a longer sentence than I envisioned, haha!

I want this commission to be a buffer, and not potentially become a superpower, so I want it to own a lot, but not too much BBP. Also, from the investors point of view, this commission could become a 'whale' with the potential to crash the BBP-market, and burning coins will raise the value of the rest of the BBP.

Oh Mike, since I am on of the people working on the new website, could you explain more about the 'Charity tab on Biblepay website' thing?

One of the main reasons for the commission is so that we have an address people can donate to.

The website is for posting the charity fund financial information and charity screening information as well as an intro to the charity commission and other related info.
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: jaapgvk on March 28, 2018, 08:01:10 AM
One of the main reasons for the commission is so that we have an address people can donate to.

The website is for posting the charity fund financial information and charity screening information as well as an intro to the charity commission and other related info.

Alright, yeah, the donation part sounds good, although I think you can already send BBP directly to the orphan address (just check the 'donate to foundation' box in the 'send' tab of the wallet). Or... It says 'foundation', so I'm not 100% sure where it goes. Maybe it's the pool address  :o Haha! That's exactly why the Charity Commissions BBP address sounds like something useful  ;D

10-4 on the website thing. That sounds cool.
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: T-Mike on March 28, 2018, 08:21:32 AM
Alright, yeah, the donation part sounds good, although I think you can already send BBP directly to the orphan address (just check the 'donate to foundation' box in the 'send' tab of the wallet). Or... It says 'foundation', so I'm not 100% sure where it goes. Maybe it's the pool address  :o Haha! That's exactly why the Charity Commissions BBP address sounds like something useful  ;D

10-4 on the website thing. That sounds cool.

I talked to Togo about it before, apparently everything has been sold. I just checked the address on the explorer and apparently it doesn't exist. I hope people aren't donating to it. But yeah I guess we can then get the fund address in the wallet and we can start posting it in our signatures.
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: jaapgvk on March 28, 2018, 08:58:44 AM
I talked to Togo about it before, apparently everything has been sold. I just checked the address on the explorer and apparently it doesn't exist. I hope people aren't donating to it. But yeah I guess we can then get the fund address in the wallet and we can start posting it in our signatures.

Yeah, that would be a great idea.

I actually found the address (at least the one my wallet gives me):
http://explorer.biblepay.org:3001/address/BB2BwSbDCqCqNsfc7FgWFJn4sRgnUt4tsM

It's the same address on which the compassion.com superblock funds were deposited.
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: T-Mike on March 28, 2018, 09:04:56 AM
Yeah, that would be a great idea.

I actually found the address (at least the one my wallet gives me):
http://explorer.biblepay.org:3001/address/BB2BwSbDCqCqNsfc7FgWFJn4sRgnUt4tsM

It's the same address on which the compassion.com superblock funds were deposited.

That's odd. So then we will need to talk to Rob if we can put our address in there. Hopefully the proposal will pass this time.
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: 616westwarmoth on March 28, 2018, 10:11:17 AM
I'm not opposed to the idea long term.  There is already a donate checkbox on the Send tab, publicizing the Orphan Fund address for donations might be advantageous.  I think you should split the proposal into two components.

Component one: Charity Commission, a level of oversight and distribution of the work load is  good idea.

Component two: Charity Fund.  This is the part I don't think is strictly necessary given we already have the Orphan Fund and I'm not clear on why we need another wallet / address to have additional donations to.
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: T-Mike on March 28, 2018, 10:16:41 AM
I'm not opposed to the idea long term.  There is already a donate checkbox on the Send tab, publicizing the Orphan Fund address for donations might be advantageous.  I think you should split the proposal into two components.

Component one: Charity Commission, a level of oversight and distribution of the work load is  good idea.

Component two: Charity Fund.  This is the part I don't think is strictly necessary given we already have the Orphan Fund and I'm not clear on why we need another wallet / address to have additional donations to.

Rob owns that address right now I think so there is currently no redundancy. One option would be for the commision to take over the compassion payments to offload it from Rob.

Splitting is a good idea, let's see how this proposal goes and split it into 2 if it fails again.
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: togoshigekata on March 28, 2018, 10:57:19 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/BiblePay/comments/7dtwx8/compassion_charity_accountability/

http://pool.biblepay.org/
Orphans >>> Expenses Paid
Orphans >>> Orphan Fundraisers
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: T-Mike on March 28, 2018, 11:04:55 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/BiblePay/comments/7dtwx8/compassion_charity_accountability/

http://pool.biblepay.org/
Orphans >>> Expenses Paid
Orphans >>> Orphan Fundraisers

Togo, I meant for the address in general that there is no accounting for all the transactions, especially when we start taking donations.
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: Rob Andrews on March 30, 2018, 07:03:32 PM
Togo, I meant for the address in general that there is no accounting for all the transactions, especially when we start taking donations.

Hmmm- what do you mean there is no accountability to that address?    Every BBP received is recorded in SQL as a reconcilable expense, and then reported on the web site, and every BBP goes to compassion.  So this "commission" is set up to make the donations go to your personal wallet instead?  Im not sure how that adds accountability. 

The thing is, we sponsor 205 children at $8000 a month, we always need more donations for compassion.  Im just not understanding how realigning the donate-to-foundation address is going to ease my workload.  The accountability web site in my opinion is a big plus for auditors who want to see the expenses in one place.  You dont have access to write records to it, so I assume I would need to get with you every month and make 2 records and then have a 2nd orphan fundraiser etc, sounds like double the work.

Yes there is a report in the wallet that shows all the amounts tithed to the foundation address also, since we started.

What are your plans on spending this on, what type of charities?  What is the projected amount you are looking to raise per month?

The proposal itself is for only 2500 bbp.  So Im confused what its for - is this just to seek approval for the idea?




Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: T-Mike on March 30, 2018, 10:23:55 PM
Hmmm- what do you mean there is no accountability to that address?    Every BBP received is recorded in SQL as a reconcilable expense, and then reported on the web site, and every BBP goes to compassion.  So this "commission" is set up to make the donations go to your personal wallet instead?  Im not sure how that adds accountability. 

The thing is, we sponsor 205 children at $8000 a month, we always need more donations for compassion.  Im just not understanding how realigning the donate-to-foundation address is going to ease my workload.  The accountability web site in my opinion is a big plus for auditors who want to see the expenses in one place.  You dont have access to write records to it, so I assume I would need to get with you every month and make 2 records and then have a 2nd orphan fundraiser etc, sounds like double the work.

Yes there is a report in the wallet that shows all the amounts tithed to the foundation address also, since we started.

What are your plans on spending this on, what type of charities?  What is the projected amount you are looking to raise per month?

The proposal itself is for only 2500 bbp.  So Im confused what its for - is this just to seek approval for the idea?

Yes, just approval for the idea. The commission is supposed to handle the ins and outs of everything related to charity. I thought we could start small and first create an address for donations. Now sure, there is the foundation address also so maybe we can use that but it's tied to the Compassion fund and it's only handled by one person. There is currently no plan to spend it on another charity and it is not for me to decide anyways. Whatever goes into the fund will first support the current charities and if a large enough of a buffer is created we can consider using it for other charities.

If the fund is approved, there will be 2 people who keep each other accountable. And yes it will take load off of you because you wouldn't have to deal with storing the coins, selling coins, and transferring it to Compassion. Everything that is BBP will be accountable on the blockchain, and everything that is converted to cash will be posted on the website for transparency. All of these things take precious time off from our only dev.

Sure, it makes everything easier when there is only 1 person that handles everything but you also become the single point of failure. In fact, and I've told Togo this, I don't want to be the one that has to handle the wallet with the donation address since it is a big responsibly. How about if you and someone else keep each other accountable instead?

I have to say, you often make me sound like a bad person, saying I was greedy, now saying everything is going into my pocket. I don't know what your deal is but I hope you repent from your unloving ways. I am here for the children, if I wasn't, I would be long gone than have to stand up to your insults.
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: Rob Andrews on March 31, 2018, 07:24:08 AM
Yes, just approval for the idea. The commission is supposed to handle the ins and outs of everything related to charity. I thought we could start small and first create an address for donations. Now sure, there is the foundation address also so maybe we can use that but it's tied to the Compassion fund and it's only handled by one person. There is currently no plan to spend it on another charity and it is not for me to decide anyways. Whatever goes into the fund will first support the current charities and if a large enough of a buffer is created we can consider using it for other charities.

If the fund is approved, there will be 2 people who keep each other accountable. And yes it will take load off of you because you wouldn't have to deal with storing the coins, selling coins, and transferring it to Compassion. Everything that is BBP will be accountable on the blockchain, and everything that is converted to cash will be posted on the website for transparency. All of these things take precious time off from our only dev.

Sure, it makes everything easier when there is only 1 person that handles everything but you also become the single point of failure. In fact, and I've told Togo this, I don't want to be the one that has to handle the wallet with the donation address since it is a big responsibly. How about if you and someone else keep each other accountable instead?

I have to say, you often make me sound like a bad person, saying I was greedy, now saying everything is going into my pocket. I don't know what your deal is but I hope you repent from your unloving ways. I am here for the children, if I wasn't, I would be long gone than have to stand up to your insults.


Mike,

You just made a quote before my post, stipulating that I've placed an address on everyones wallet where we have NO ACCOUNTABILITY for funds sent to it.  You basically said "Rob handles this" but we dont even know what was sent to it.  (Which I explained is not the case - I wrote an RPC report to show every BBP that goes to it).  That insinuates that I created a system to hide money.  But in reality I had a vision for accountability.biblepay.org to be able to reconcile every bbp In, and every bbp Out so it is all tied to an expense that has a receipt.  So it felt like an attack on the system, meaning your system was going to replace my faulty one.   So I pointed out how this new system does not actually solve anything, it creates less accountability.    So I would suggest asking more questions and learning more about whats actually going on before making misleading posts and creating a system that adds complexity and attempts to work around the problem.

Regarding Greed, you created a Good botnet that pulls in 20% of all Biblepay mining revenue for yourself, and then wrote a post in the vote for StakeRequired-Per-RAC that we shouldnt have any requirement.  Obviously this triggers the personal feeling - of course, then you could control even more of the pie.  I apologized for that, because I realize it was an ASSUMPTION on my part.   Nevertheless it does point to some potential vote bias on your end.

Anyway, please dont insinuate that I need to repent when Im defending the Orphans System, the system created for the orphans, only because you have a warped view - and have had your feelings hurt on this flawed idea, that automatically Im an evil person.  Im also here for the children, and the system has to be designed properly, not in a fly by night manner. 

First of all there is a difference between single point of failure for funds that are handled for long periods of time vs funds that are immediately spent. 
The other issue is when you attack the compassion.com system, you are attacking one that is spent immediately.  The superblock funds come in, they are converted and spent, they are not sitting around for months like they would be in a charitable sanctuary. 

In my view we have been doing quite fine splitting up the load on charities by creating different people to handle each charity- BLOOM handles their own dispursement, Jaap for Cameroon, Me for compassion, etc.  Im all for splitting the load and having more accountability.  Its being doing through the proposal system naturally as it is.

Thats why Im so confused as to what this Charity commission would be, I dont know what "ins and outs are". 




Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: T-Mike on March 31, 2018, 08:57:49 AM
Rob,

You just made a quote before my post, stipulating that I've placed an address on everyones wallet where we have NO ACCOUNTABILITY for funds sent to it.  You basically said "Rob handles this" but we dont even know what was sent to it.  (Which I explained is not the case - I wrote an RPC report to show every BBP that goes to it).  That insinuates that I created a system to hide money.  But in reality I had a vision for accountability.biblepay.org to be able to reconcile every bbp In, and every bbp Out so it is all tied to an expense that has a receipt.  So it felt like an attack on the system, meaning your system was going to replace my faulty one.   So I pointed out how this new system does not actually solve anything, it creates less accountability.    So I would suggest asking more questions and learning more about whats actually going on before making misleading posts and creating a system that adds complexity and attempts to work around the problem.

I have updated my post to say that there is no redundancy, sorry about that. I still stand by that the commission will be able to do more in an accountable manner. No matter how much reporting you have the fund is still handled by one person. I see a way to improve what we have now and that is all, I appreciate all the work you have done to make everything transparent and the current system will likely be sufficient for the immediate future.

Regarding Greed, you created a Good botnet that pulls in 20% of all Biblepay mining revenue for yourself, and then wrote a post in the vote for StakeRequired-Per-RAC that we shouldnt have any requirement.  Obviously this triggers the personal feeling - of course, then you could control even more of the pie.  I apologized for that, because I realize it was an ASSUMPTION on my part.   Nevertheless it does point to some potential vote bias on your end.

We all have ideas on how the world should work and I don't agree with the current amount of staking that is required. It is evident from the poll that people have their own preference whether good or bad.

Anyway, please dont insinuate that I need to repent when Im defending the Orphans System, the system created for the orphans, only because you have a warped view - and have had your feelings hurt on this flawed idea, that automatically Im an evil person.  Im also here for the children, and the system has to be designed properly, not in a fly by night manner. 

There you go again, "only because you have a warped view". I'm not going to say much more about this if this is how you will respond.

First of all there is a difference between single point of failure for funds that are handled for long periods of time vs funds that are immediately spent. 
The other issue is when you attack the compassion.com system, you are attacking one that is spent immediately.  The superblock funds come in, they are converted and spent, they are not sitting around for months like they would be in a charitable sanctuary. 

The fund will have assets that are held for a long period of time thus more redundancy would be better. If all the charities are handled through the commission by different individuals it would take load off of you. Of course if you want, you can also be on the commission and be the person to handle the Compassion funds as long as everyone agrees to it.

In my view we have been doing quite fine splitting up the load on charities by creating different people to handle each charity- BLOOM handles their own dispursement, Jaap for Cameroon, Me for compassion, etc.  Im all for splitting the load and having more accountability.  Its being doing through the proposal system naturally as it is.

The Commission will formalize all our charity efforts and create an organized system to operate on.

Thats why Im so confused as to what this Charity commission would be, I dont know what "ins and outs are".

Ins and outs (non exhaustive):
Charity fund disbursement.
Accounting and transparency.
Register as non-profit organization.
Management structure.
Charity research.
Charity Drives.
Documentation.
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: 616westwarmoth on March 31, 2018, 10:10:06 AM
Again, I think the idea of a commission is good as it spreads out the work load while still maintaining integrity.  I would personally think an odd number commission would be idea so that there could be no tie votes in case of disagreements, but kept to 3 to 5 to avoid the inefficiencies of large groups.

Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: jaapgvk on April 09, 2018, 03:11:46 PM
April gave me the idea for another function for the commission:

Manna has something called 'interactive giving', in which people can give Manna directly to charities. I think we can do a similar thing for charities.

The situation right now is that charities create proposals and receive BBP on a certain address. These addresses can change with every proposal. But what the commission can do, is have some fixed BBP address for every charity that we are partnered with, so that people can send BBP to those addresses if they want, knowing that their BBP will go to the right place.

The responsibility for the commission here, is that they have contact with the charities and the BBP addresses they use, and the commission can then send the BBP to where it's needed.

Here is the link to the Manna infographic, where it is explained:
https://www.mannabase.com/static/documents/infographic.png

Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: T-Mike on April 09, 2018, 07:29:04 PM
April gave me the idea for another function for the commission:

Manna has something called 'interactive giving', in which people can give Manna directly to charities. I think we can do a similar thing for charities.

The situation right now is that charities create proposals and receive BBP on a certain address. These addresses can change with every proposal. But what the commission can do, is have some fixed BBP address for every charity that we are partnered with, so that people can send BBP to those addresses if they want, knowing that their BBP will go to the right place.

The responsibility for the commission here, is that they have contact with the charities and the BBP addresses they use, and the commission can then send the BBP to where it's needed.

Here is the link to the Manna infographic, where it is explained:
https://www.mannabase.com/static/documents/infographic.png

That's a great idea, and we will split the addresses to different people. I hope the proposal passes though, its -3 votes so far.
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: jaapgvk on April 10, 2018, 06:20:13 AM
That's a great idea, and we will split the addresses to different people. I hope the proposal passes though, its -3 votes so far.

Well, I think the way this Commission will work still needs some thinking.

I really want to keep using accountability.biblepay.org for all accountability (not just for Compassion, but also for BLOOM and CameroonONE). It's there, it works.

I want this commission to be able to do due-diligence on existing and new charities, and I want it to have budget for this.

I want this commission to make it easy for people to donate to the different projects we have. Right now, the 'donate to foundation' checkbox in the wallet is there or course, but for non-experienced users it's probably not clear what this 'foundation' is. I think it would be great if under the 'foundation' tab on the website, there would be donation addresses for charities (maybe even also in different denominations such as BTC or ETH).

I was thinking about the 'buffer function' of the commission, and I actually have to say that I'm not sure anymore of this function. Right now, Compassion is building up to a six month ahead payment. I'm doing to the same for CameroonONE for a year, and BLOOM is payed three months ahead every time the create a proposal. I'm thinking this may be more the responsibility of the charities themselves. I might be good to have a small buffer still, but I'm not feeling comfortable with the commission having large reserves and the 'power' to decide where these funds will go. I think that the decentralized way in which we're doing things right now is better.
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: togoshigekata on April 10, 2018, 01:32:54 PM
A question I wrote down a long time ago in my notes,

What happens to the monthly superblock (IT/PR/Charity funds) once we reach year 2050 and reach end of block rewards?
(Assuming I am understanding what happens around year 2050 correctly)

How will we continue to fund IT/PR/Charity?

just a question for discussion, we are still 30+ years away from this.
Ethereum doesnt have a hard cap and so its inflationary,
Monero has a tail end emission where a constant amount will keep being rewarded,

My understanding is that with Bitcoin and other coins, miners will keep mining to be rewarded the fees that are still in blocks.
But we havent seen how this pans out yet, and probably wont for many years, unless we can observe crypto coins whose max supply has already been reached.
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: T-Mike on April 10, 2018, 10:48:13 PM
jaapgvk,

Well, I think the way this Commission will work still needs some thinking.
I think anything can be discussed and voted on, nothing is really set in stone right now. We really need to start somewhere though.

I really want to keep using accountability.biblepay.org for all accountability (not just for Compassion, but also for BLOOM and CameroonONE). It's there, it works.
Sure, but just be aware that only one person controls it. What if all the data disappears one day? We should also hire an auditor to do regular audits periodically.

I want this commission to be able to do due-diligence on existing and new charities, and I want it to have budget for this.
Yes, I think this will be one of the commission's main tasks.

I want this commission to make it easy for people to donate to the different projects we have. Right now, the 'donate to foundation' checkbox in the wallet is there or course, but for non-experienced users it's probably not clear what this 'foundation' is. I think it would be great if under the 'foundation' tab on the website, there would be donation addresses for charities (maybe even also in different denominations such as BTC or ETH).
That's a great idea, but also a big responsibility that I think should be handled by the commission. And we will prepare ourselves for this, it's not just setting up a few wallet addresses, there are many safeguards that will need to be put in place.

I was thinking about the 'buffer function' of the commission, and I actually have to say that I'm not sure anymore of this function. Right now, Compassion is building up to a six month ahead payment. I'm doing to the same for CameroonONE for a year, and BLOOM is payed three months ahead every time the create a proposal. I'm thinking this may be more the responsibility of the charities themselves. I might be good to have a small buffer still, but I'm not feeling comfortable with the commission having large reserves and the 'power' to decide where these funds will go. I think that the decentralized way in which we're doing things right now is better.
The commission was supposed to keep the funds so that we can make the payments monthly without having to pay in advance. There are many advantages to doing so. The way we are doing it right now is still exceeding the original charity budget, and the last super-block, by a lot more then usual. The commission will not have the power to decide where the funds go, everything will be governed, if necessary, by creating proposals. Like I've said, we can split the reserves among trusted brothers or sisters. And if it makes you feel better about it, I will not handle any of the funds.
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: jaapgvk on April 11, 2018, 06:31:33 AM
You're probably right about the redundancy of accountability.biblepay.org, but if the right backups are in place, I think it should work as intended. It's a central place that is reachable by anyone.

About the advance payments:
What are the advantages to not paying ahead in your view?
Of course, right now we're paying some of the ahead payments from leftover budgets, but in my opinion that's just a temporary thing.

I'm actually pro burning any leftover funds (after we pay Compassion ahead for six months). We agreed upon spending a certain portion of the budget on certain things, and if we have leftover, we should burn it. This would give more confidence for investors that the value of their investment will grow in time.
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: T-Mike on April 11, 2018, 07:07:00 AM
You're probably right about the redundancy of accountability.biblepay.org, but if the right backups are in place, I think it should work as intended. It's a central place that is reachable by anyone.
Sure, there is no mention of how backups are done though. Even if there was, we should have regular IT audits.

About the advance payments:
What are the advantages to not paying ahead in your view?
Of course, right now we're paying some of the ahead payments from leftover budgets, but in my opinion that's just a temporary thing.
From an investment standpoint, we should probably have 2 buffers, one in BBP and one is USD, that way we can have some freedom to sell when the price is higher, etc.

In case the charity collapses, we would not be giving them more funds.


I'm actually pro burning any leftover funds (after we pay Compassion ahead for six months). We agreed upon spending a certain portion of the budget on certain things, and if we have leftover, we should burn it. This would give more confidence for investors that the value of their investment will grow in time.
I think from an investor standpoint that if the leftover funds were put into a fund for charity purposes that it would be fine. Plus, we would still be following the 10% rule.
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: jaapgvk on April 11, 2018, 07:17:49 AM
You're probably right about the redundancy of accountability.biblepay.org, but if the right backups are in place, I think it should work as intended. It's a central place that is reachable by anyone.
Sure, there is no mention of how backups are done though. Even if there was, we should have regular IT audits.

About the advance payments:
What are the advantages to not paying ahead in your view?
Of course, right now we're paying some of the ahead payments from leftover budgets, but in my opinion that's just a temporary thing.
From an investment standpoint, we should probably have 2 buffers, one in BBP and one is USD, that way we can have some freedom to sell when the price is higher, etc.

In case the charity collapses, we would not be giving them more funds.


I'm actually pro burning any leftover funds (after we pay Compassion ahead for six months). We agreed upon spending a certain portion of the budget on certain things, and if we have leftover, we should burn it. This would give more confidence for investors that the value of their investment will grow in time.
I think from an investor standpoint that if the leftover funds were put into a fund for charity purposes that it would be fine. Plus, we would still be following the 10% rule.


Right, I get your points. Thank you for your explanations.

I like the idea of having buffers in both BBP and USD, especially with the thought of selling when prices are high.

Also, thank you for clarifying that you only want to use leftover funds of the 10% for buffering. I thought you meant that all unused funds (charity, IT, PR) should go to the Commission.
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: sunk818 on May 14, 2018, 10:25:16 AM
1) What happens if the BBP/BTC pair rises? Is there be a mechanism for giving at steady accelerated rate versus giving spending the entire amount? Spending each month becomes a feast or famine approach. If there's a surplus, I'd be for a steady rise in giving like 5% more each month... It's a way for all organized structure to adapt to growth slowly from BBP side and charities.  If the BBP/BTC price drops, I think a similar approach of reducing payments slowly could also occur.

2) @jappgvk "is have some fixed BBP address for every charity that we are partnered with, so that people can send BBP to those addresses if they want, knowing that their BBP will go to the right place."

I agree with the idea but I also see some issues with potential fraud. Third party could advertise addresses not authorized or slightly different from the charity to siphon donations. Once you open this up, there's a lot of potential for fraud. Centralized giving in some ways is more secure.

3) I don't know what country each charity manager lives, so I'm curious what income tax reporting looks like for all three of you (compassion, cameroon, and bloom). For example, Rob A. gives to Compassion on his AmEx. Does he have to report this as personal charity giving on his income tax because he pays with his American Express. And his American Express, I'm assuming, is a personal credit card?

4) Is the BBP Foundation already a non-profit, LLC, or some sort of business entity? Is all the giving already recorded under the umbrella organization of BBP Foundation?

5) I just worry if wallets or Rob or jaap dies, the charities may miss a payment... are there recovery plans for disasters like this?
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: jaapgvk on May 17, 2018, 11:30:42 AM
1) What happens if the BBP/BTC pair rises? Is there be a mechanism for giving at steady accelerated rate versus giving spending the entire amount? Spending each month becomes a feast or famine approach. If there's a surplus, I'd be for a steady rise in giving like 5% more each month... It's a way for all organized structure to adapt to growth slowly from BBP side and charities.  If the BBP/BTC price drops, I think a similar approach of reducing payments slowly could also occur.

2) @jappgvk "is have some fixed BBP address for every charity that we are partnered with, so that people can send BBP to those addresses if they want, knowing that their BBP will go to the right place."

I agree with the idea but I also see some issues with potential fraud. Third party could advertise addresses not authorized or slightly different from the charity to siphon donations. Once you open this up, there's a lot of potential for fraud. Centralized giving in some ways is more secure.

3) I don't know what country each charity manager lives, so I'm curious what income tax reporting looks like for all three of you (compassion, cameroon, and bloom). For example, Rob A. gives to Compassion on his AmEx. Does he have to report this as personal charity giving on his income tax because he pays with his American Express. And his American Express, I'm assuming, is a personal credit card?

4) Is the BBP Foundation already a non-profit, LLC, or some sort of business entity? Is all the giving already recorded under the umbrella organization of BBP Foundation?

5) I just worry if wallets or Rob or jaap dies, the charities may miss a payment... are there recovery plans for disasters like this?

Hi LifeThruGrace,

I haven't seen you here before, so first of all: welcome and thank you for your feedback :)

1) Currently there is kind of a buffer. I think that you could say that we'd like to see at least a buffer of six months for charities. I think that - in the current climate - such a buffer would be pretty safe to market fluctuations.

2) I agree on the window for fraud. Someone could hack biblepay.org and change the addresses. I was thinking about https://www.mannabase.com/ They have a similar system where you can donate to specific causes. I guess that voting via proposals is the way to go, but apart from that, I think that donating FIAT is also a worthwhile goal to pursue for BiblePay.

3) I don't know the answer to this question, but as far as my knowledge goes Compassion, CameroonONE and BLOOM are all based in the U.S.

4) Presently BiblePay isn't any kind of business entity, although experienced people have come forward and volunteered to help BiblePay with becoming such an entity. I think that part of BiblePay will inevitably structure like such an entity in the future.

5) I can only speak for myself in this case. Concerning charities I transfer the crypto to the charity I'm helping as fast as I can (I don't like keeping funds on exchanges). Concerning my function as treasurer: people I trust have the knowledge to access my funds. Although I see that my function in BiblePay is not decentralized in any way, I would like it to be that way as fast as possible.
Title: Re: Biblepay Charity Commission - Revised
Post by: jaapgvk on May 23, 2018, 04:25:46 AM
QIEX has plans to donate the fees that occur when trading BBP to BiblePay, and I think that something like this would be very practical to be handled by the commission :)