Bible Pay

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  • T-Mike
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Biblepay Charity Commission
« on: February 25, 2018, 08:15:41 pm »
Biblepay Charity Commission and Sanctuaries

I propose to start a charity commission to take care of all the in and outs of sponsoring children and the filtering of charity organizations. The sanctuaries will have the final say but we will be responsible for the screening process and for providing the Sanctuaries with the information they need to make a decision. Additionally, I propose we start a charity fund where it's purpose is to provide backup funds to the charities and support even more people in need. Biblepay does not currently strictly follow the 10% allowance for charities and is allowed to exceed that since it is Biblepay's top priority. However, this leads to under funding of other tasks that are important to the success of the project. In this way, we can support more children while the developers can focus on improving the platform to attract more people to invest in the kingdom of God.

Initial Road-map:
Secure Charity Fund Wallet - 4/31/2018.
Charity Tab on www.biblepay.org - 4/30/2018

Some background on me, I am currently working as an Assistant Program Manager at my company. I have 2 kids and a beautiful wife. I am blessed beyond anything I could ever imagine and want to serve the Lord wherever he pleases. I am still praying if this is where He wants me to be but He has already commanded us this,

Quote
Deuteronomy 15:11 King James Version (KJV)

11 For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.

I will donate all the rewards from my sanctuary until the 1st Biblepay Chairty Commision sanctuary is enabled or for a maximum of 3 months from the day the proposal is approved.

Proposal Requirement:
Charity tab on Biblepay website.
Donate all leftover budget to charity fund.
Mike as director of the Charity Commission. (If there is someone else you think that is a good candidate for the position, please don't hesitate to mention that person.)



Detailed Information:
1. Securing the wallet: There will always be two people who have access to the fund wallet. Both these people will exchange their address by sending each other their bank statement (minus sensitive information) and phone number. The wallet passphrase will be engraved in metal and stored at a secure location in both locations .
« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 07:58:47 pm by T-Mike »


  • jaapgvk
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Re: Biblepay Charity Commission and Sanctuaries
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2018, 02:41:07 am »
Okay, this is an interesting idea :) I like the idea of supporting the charity funds with sanctuaries. Although I think maybe we should not have too many sanctuaries doing this. If we do, we will drive the value of the coin down because of all the BBP that will flow into the market. But that's a long-term thing of course, and it would take many years to get to that level. Who know how the Biblepay environment will be at that time. And we could always halt the proposals or request less BBP.

Same goes for the 'non voting' aspect. The commission can say that they won't use their sanctuaries for voting, but who is in control of the actual sanctuaries? Power can corrupt, sadly... I was thinking, maybe we could have the commissions sanctuaries on a PC that has needs some kind of 'multisig' to vote (and send funds)? You know, that at least three or so people need to give permission, before there could be access? But maybe that's a bit much, haha! And the same goes here: there's really not a lot at stake when there are just a few sanctuaries.

But I really like that there would be a team of people that screen and inform possible new charities. I've been doing that for CameroonONE and would also like to be part of the team.

Lastly: from which fund do you think the requested BBP would have to come from?


  • Cryptoshot
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Re: Biblepay Charity Commission and Sanctuaries
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2018, 06:09:35 am »
This is a brilliant idea. I think this will provide efficiency in the charity aspect of BBP, especially with the inclusion of the screening committee.


  • T-Mike
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Re: Biblepay Charity Commission and Sanctuaries
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2018, 07:43:46 am »
Okay, this is an interesting idea :) I like the idea of supporting the charity funds with sanctuaries. Although I think maybe we should not have too many sanctuaries doing this. If we do, we will drive the value of the coin down because of all the BBP that will flow into the market. But that's a long-term thing of course, and it would take many years to get to that level. Who know how the Biblepay environment will be at that time. And we could always halt the proposals or request less BBP.

Same goes for the 'non voting' aspect. The commission can say that they won't use their sanctuaries for voting, but who is in control of the actual sanctuaries? Power can corrupt, sadly... I was thinking, maybe we could have the commissions sanctuaries on a PC that has needs some kind of 'multisig' to vote (and send funds)? You know, that at least three or so people need to give permission, before there could be access? But maybe that's a bit much, haha! And the same goes here: there's really not a lot at stake when there are just a few sanctuaries.

But I really like that there would be a team of people that screen and inform possible new charities. I've been doing that for CameroonONE and would also like to be part of the team.

Lastly: from which fund do you think the requested BBP would have to come from?

The multisig idea is great and can be implemented in the future when the need arises. Right now, I think the rule that we cannot own over 50% of the Sanctuaries will suffice. Think about how long it would take for us to gather enough funds for 100 sanctuaries. We can change the rule in the future but right now our goal is to have just a few.

As for the funds, I don't think it is too crucial to say which part it comes out of since it is not fixed at the moment. If we get enough votes per month we will get a payout.

It is better to start earlier with the sanctuaries, think compound interest. We could potentially have more funds for charities from the fund alone then the original 10%!
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 07:46:53 am by T-Mike »


  • togoshigekata
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Re: Biblepay Charity Commission and Sanctuaries
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2018, 01:34:18 pm »
I think this idea of using masternodes to grow the Charity funds is interesting!,

but it does put the coins into the hands of whoever runs these Charity masternodes,
meaning the network loses control and trusts 1 party with these masternodes and how they spend/use the coins from them,
whereas with the current budget system, sanctuaries control who gets coins from the superblock from voting.

So the question comes down to, does the benefit of compound interest outweigh the con of centralization of the funds.

But even so, when we do pay someone funds from the superblock, there is no guarantee they will use the funds for what they say they will do, so it comes more down to trust / building a relationship.

So far TMike has been very active in Testnet Testing and in the Discord the past month or so.

Also centralization wise, Rob is currently the one handling the Compassion Charity and is the middle man of the funds, so we currently all trust Rob with that process, but he does provide documentation of his selling of the coins and also we can contact Compassion to confirm our account with them and the number of orphans. But also, he still has to put up a proposal every month to receive funds.

===

Rapture coin I believe is trying to partner with charities and provide them each their own masternode:
https://our-rapture.com/giving/
But it looks the will Rapture will run them for the Charities and fund the charities periodically from the payments

===

Rob was also looking for someone for the "Director of Charity Integration" position
https://www.reddit.com/r/BiblePay/comments/7mj66u/hiring_for_director_of_charity_integration/

I believe jaapgvk did a really good job with CameroonONE and it sounds like he might potentially be interested in the role as well or in teaming up.

===

More questions for thought:

- How would voting on the use of the funds work?

- Worst case, What happens if you end up stepping away from the project or pass away?

- Is it possible to make sanctuary ownership or the payments from them more decentralized?

- For the work of screening and communicating with charities, communicating with us about the charities and maintaining/updating sanctuaries, what would your potential payrate be? (I want you to get paid for your work!)

- Rob, are you open to passing on your Compassion work? Or is that something you still want to do / be directly involved in?

- Any ideas on how to help charities with technical integration?

Just some questions, no need for anyone to answer, just things to think about.


  • T-Mike
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Re: Biblepay Charity Commission and Sanctuaries
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2018, 02:06:12 pm »
I think this idea of using masternodes to grow the Charity funds is interesting!,

but it does put the coins into the hands of whoever runs these Charity masternodes,
meaning the network loses control and trusts 1 party with these masternodes and how they spend/use the coins from them,
whereas with the current budget system, sanctuaries control who gets coins from the superblock from voting.

So the question comes down to, does the benefit of compound interest outweigh the con of centralization of the funds.

But even so, when we do pay someone funds from the superblock, there is no guarantee they will use the funds for what they say they will do, so it comes more down to trust / building a relationship.

So far TMike has been very active in Testnet Testing and in the Discord the past month or so.

More questions for thought:

- How would voting on the use of the funds work?

- Worst case, What happens if you end up stepping away from the project or pass away?

- Is it possible to make sanctuary ownership or the payments from them more decentralized?

- For the work of screening and communicating with charities, communicating with us about the charities and maintaining/updating sanctuaries, what would your potential payrate be? (I want you to get paid for your work!)

- Rob, are you open to passing on your Compassion work? Or is that something you still want to do / be directly involved in?

- Any ideas on how to help charities with technical integration?

Just some questions, no need for anyone to answer, just things to think about.

As far as centralizing goes, I still think that as long as we don't exceed 50% of the total masternodes that this is not a problem. And if the commission masternodes start voting against the rules, someone can always make a proposal to disregard the commission's sanctuary votes. Also right now, the sanctuaries still have the voting right for the commissions various functions. Meaning if someone needs to be paid for work, they will still have to submit a proposal and which charities get picked is still up to the sanctuaries. Since the funds are suppose to back up the original 10%, in the future we should not exceed the 10% allocated and instead draw from the charity funds if there is a deficit.

For the wallet, I plan on having 2 people with access to it. The plan is to get a safe security box in both locations with the wallet passphrases engraved by laser onto a piece of metal. That way is anything happens to one person there is a backup.

Perhaps the keeper of the sanctuaries could post a public profile, I would not mind doing so.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 02:11:34 pm by T-Mike »


  • 616westwarmoth
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Re: Biblepay Charity Commission and Sanctuaries
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2018, 01:12:06 pm »
I really like this idea in concept.  I had thought along similar lines before the Sanctuaries were active.

The good aspects are pretty well documented, primarily compound interest and the hope that the coin appreciates in value faster than the Sanctuary returns drop (by both the deflationary emission schedule and the continual rise in Sanctuaries).  I don't see any real issue with the 50% limit, since 1) Sanctuaries couldn't be deployed very quickly while the coins price was low because a majority of the coin is needed to fund the current charitable obligations and 2) I don't share the idea that 200 is going to be the maximum number of sanctuaries.

The downside is as stated, a concentration of control and at the end of the day there has to be one owner of the Sanctuary.  So the compromise could easily be one of two things.  One would be a trusted member of the community runs it, two would be we actually give the Sanctuary to a charity that would be willing to run it.

The idea has a lot of merit and needs to be thought out, even if I don't think it should be done this cycle.


  • T-Mike
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Re: Biblepay Charity Commission and Sanctuaries
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2018, 01:18:31 pm »
I really like this idea in concept.  I had thought along similar lines before the Sanctuaries were active.

The good aspects are pretty well documented, primarily compound interest and the hope that the coin appreciates in value faster than the Sanctuary returns drop (by both the deflationary emission schedule and the continual rise in Sanctuaries).  I don't see any real issue with the 50% limit, since 1) Sanctuaries couldn't be deployed very quickly while the coins price was low because a majority of the coin is needed to fund the current charitable obligations and 2) I don't share the idea that 200 is going to be the maximum number of sanctuaries.

The downside is as stated, a concentration of control and at the end of the day there has to be one owner of the Sanctuary.  So the compromise could easily be one of two things.  One would be a trusted member of the community runs it, two would be we actually give the Sanctuary to a charity that would be willing to run it.

The idea has a lot of merit and needs to be thought out, even if I don't think it should be done this cycle.

I understand the concern is that someone could run away with the money so I noted in the details section about 2 people keeping each other accountable for the funds wallet. I think what we need to do is start a non-profit so that people will be able to put more trust in us but that's something that can come later as we grow. If the Sanctuaries idea does not work out, I suggest we should still have a fund to accept donations and such.


  • znffal
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Re: Biblepay Charity Commission and Sanctuaries
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2018, 01:53:52 pm »
I understand the concern is that someone could run away with the money so I noted in the details section about 2 people keeping each other accountable for the funds wallet. I think what we need to do is start a non-profit so that people will be able to put more trust in us but that's something that can come later as we grow. If the Sanctuaries idea does not work out, I suggest we should still have a fund to accept donations and such.

Hi,
I'm in 2 minds about this one. On the fence!
In fact, I really like the suggestion a couple of messages back that we "donate" a sanctuary to charity. That way the charity has a somewhat consistent funding throughout the year, and we free up our 10% for other charities.
If we were to run it ourselves I think a trust is the best way.
Nice thinking buddy!


  • znffal
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Re: Biblepay Charity Commission and Sanctuaries
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2018, 02:33:57 pm »
Hmmm, I see that this will be in the "Charity" column of the budget.

Cameroon One has asked for a Million BBP, and you are asking for 0.5 Million. Rob also will aks for some for the Compassion Orphans.
We cannot fit all three into this months superblock...


  • T-Mike
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Re: Biblepay Charity Commission and Sanctuaries
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2018, 02:42:51 pm »
Hmmm, I see that this will be in the "Charity" column of the budget.

Cameroon One has asked for a Million BBP, and you are asking for 0.5 Million. Rob also will aks for some for the Compassion Orphans.
We cannot fit all three into this months superblock...

If the 500K cannot be obtained that is alright. The main point is starting the commission.


  • znffal
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Re: Biblepay Charity Commission and Sanctuaries
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2018, 03:13:18 pm »
If the 500K cannot be obtained that is alright. The main point is starting the commission.

Ok, so it is kind of like we start this thing, and then every month whatever is left over in the charity column we allocate to the commission? Great!


  • T-Mike
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Re: Biblepay Charity Commission and Sanctuaries
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2018, 03:18:07 pm »
Ok, so it is kind of like we start this thing, and then every month whatever is left over in the charity column we allocate to the commission? Great!

Yeah, it looks like in the short term it might be difficult to secure any funds at all. We need to do more work on the governance for it to work better. Please see my governance discussion in the general section.


  • jaapgvk
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Re: Biblepay Charity Commission and Sanctuaries
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2018, 03:53:08 pm »
I like the idea of donating sanctuaries to charities. Not only does it make them active participants in the Biblepay community, but I guess it also makes sure that the sale of BBP on the market is more gradual, crashing the markets less (but I'm not really good at market economics, haha!).

On the other hand, before we do such a thing, we should be absolutely 100% sure we don't get scammed out of our sanctuaries, because once we donate one, it's up to the people that get it what they will do with it.

It's interesting that there could be a commission that handles the sanctuaries, or the charities themselves could get them. Both have pro's and con's.


  • T-Mike
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Re: Biblepay Charity Commission and Sanctuaries
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2018, 04:09:51 pm »
I like the idea of donating sanctuaries to charities. Not only does it make them active participants in the Biblepay community, but I guess it also makes sure that the sale of BBP on the market is more gradual, crashing the markets less (but I'm not really good at market economics, haha!).

On the other hand, before we do such a thing, we should be absolutely 100% sure we don't get scammed out of our sanctuaries, because once we donate one, it's up to the people that get it what they will do with it.

It's interesting that there could be a commission that handles the sanctuaries, or the charities themselves could get them. Both have pro's and con's.

I think donating masternodes is something we could do in certain circumstances. The point of keeping the masternodes inside the organization is so that it acts as a seed or investment so that we have the required funds to not only give, but to sustain the operation. If we only give masternodes away, then the operational cost would only be available from donations. Right now, the operational cost would still come from the superblock, but in the future, it would be much more efficient to pay the operational costs from the fund.